Why follow God and what makes it moral?

Really ? The reason that I ask is because I don't know a lot of people that wish they were never born,or were given life. You would really rather prefer nothingness ?

 

It seems then you cannot answer my question, which is ok. To each his own.

Don't get me wrong. There is certainly some truth in religion, and certainly great aspects of moral thinking and action. I have always found Jesus to be an amazing preacher. But the fact remains that religion, as an ideology, let alone an institution, is based on flawed premises of justification.

 

You have a prior notion of how your questions should be answered--this seems a theme.

Here: No--I did not ask God 'why I should do it.' Asking why was irrelevant at the time.

And you are a valid judge of this...why?

 

I mean generally. My life is great - but the life of MOST PEOPLE is and has been terrible.

 

Its relevant now though.

Because if I apply the reasoning to follow God it comes up short of a justification, or a principle of thought that has any validity. You say mutual love, but I dont see mutual tendencies in the relationship.

 

I disagree. Religion is based on exactly the right premise of justification, namely self-justification.

It's the idea that the justification of religion lies beyond the religion itself that's flawed.

 

So you are asserting some kind of post-modernist stance that all that matters is personal conviction - not reality?

 

in a sense, personal conviction is how to sustain reality.

Meaning; if you cannot sustain the fact, then there is nothing to witness.

For example; is the sun what assists plants to grow? Is it 'the light' doing it?

Does knowledge evolve?

Would the pinnacle of knowledge be that 'each can understand'?

 

All matters? No, only all matters divine. Everything else may or may not be justified beyond itself.

 

I can hold the personal conviction that green goblins assist plants to grow. I cannot justify it by anything but itself but it has nothing to do with sustaining reality nor with gaining any kind of understanding or knowledge.

For whatever reason I may have a need of being convicted of plants being assisted by green goblins to grow, it only has to do with such a need.

 

What are flawed premises of justification?

 

Can't speak for most people.

 

And...He was right, and I was right to do as He said.

 

It's not valid because it's not valid. That is what you just said.

 

The major problem you make with this question is that you ask people to make ASSUMPTIONS. I am sure you know what assumptions do. Why in the world would anyone assume that any god is real, let alone the one of the major religions??

But, in answer to your questions, the rules of the bible are neither good not bad, moral nor immoral. They are rules that worked to allow the society of that time and place to work together instead of fighting each other. That is all morals are, guidelines to allow humans to work together instead of killing one another. Laws and morals serve the same purpose and they change with time, location and culture. To accept the outdated and foolish beliefs that those of ancient cultures accepted, for modern times is not very logical at all. Things the bible accepted as moral we no longer accept in any form. Things such as slavery and supremacy of man over woman is no longer moral or legal. To follow some religion that believes they are is foolish, stupid, illogical and so unreasonable as to lack any ability to justify them.

 

Like that 'God is good because he is God' etc.

 

Yes I can. In 2005 it was estimated that 1.4 billion people live below the poverty line. Even more are struggle to make ends meat. But that of course leaves all the disease, war, etc etc, all the bad stuff that happens to nearly everyone in the world everyday. http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_many_people_live_below_the_international_poverty_line_world_wide

 

But since the divine enters the 'non-divine' ie our immediate reality, it must obey by our rules of reality else it has no place in it. There is absolutely no reason why the divine should be spared logical investigation.

 

No I said why it wasnt valid - you say you love God because he loves you. But as you indicated you are his slave - he orders you to act against your own will for no reason (since he gave you none as you told me, it was just faith). The relationship is not of love, but slave and master. The thing you have failed to justify is why this relationship is valid. As you have indicated your concept of "love" is merely emotion, not objective reasoning because it is based on faith - on hope, which is not logical, it subjects logic to emotion. You have faith, not knowledge or reason in your following of God. This is what I seek - not faith, not emotionalism, but logical reasoning as to why God is correct and why he should be followed

 

I mostly agree.

 

God doesn't reveal Himself through reasoning. God does not answer your question as to why you should follow Him. God does not care for your logic and does not reply to it.

Quantrill

 

Out of 6 billion.

And of course, if you are poor, you must be miserable. Lack honor.

Well, having taken on the role of God in judgement over all else, perhaps you could do something about it?

 

Then use it.

Show us what is wrong in the commandments God has given us? Go ahead, you once again contence yourself as an expert of the teachings of Jesus, go ahead and tell us, logically what is wrong?

Compare that to your nature world and tell us, with some objective criteria for comparison, how it logically shacks out?

Just because you say the word, "logic", does not mean you are using it.

We are still waiting for you to come up with some kind standard, like actual people using logic, that will allow a fair and impartial comparison.

All you are doing is changing to standards to tell people why they are wrong, that is not logic its sheer obstinacy.

 

ARe you really telling Felicity what she believes and why she believes it to tell he she is full of crap?

What did I say right in the beginning?

I realize its difficult having to control the pent up desire to tell people how wrong they are, but why don;t let people define their beliefs for themselves?

BTW - there is a little principle that is quite popular in Christians circles that you claim to have expert knoweldge in. Its called obiedence. Just because YOU don;t understand something, you TRUST in God because you know he loves you, often, later, we come to understand why the thing was necessary.

Its called trust, not slavery.

And as a perspective sniper, did you bother to apply you thinking slick? DO snipers question every order they get? Do they question every gerneral and demand sheafs of scientifically documented information, a jury trial and conviction for every target, and make Congress sign an affidavit clearing them of responsibility in the event something goes wrong?

I think I see the slave here, and it is not the one following order in trust. It is the one doing nothing because he is enslaved by pride and can be moved by nothing but himself.

Perhaps you have heard of Narcissus?

 

That's only a quarter of the population at one time,not "most people," not that it matters anyway because you can't put a price ($) on "terrible." Hard to believe,I know, but this does not translate to "In 2005 it was estimated that 1.4 billion people lived terrible lives." You can't start at 2005 either,you would have to account for all life over all time..

...and a lot of those same people are full of joy,love and hope,are very happy.

Everyone,everyday ? No megadethfan, that isn't true. Everyone has their ups and downs and at different times.

You didn't mention all that life is worth living for. I would think it would be easy for you too, since your life is great.