Why Is Germany a Superpower 70 Years After It Was Dust?

Fiscal sanity and discipline, their government is less in debt.

There are conspiracies that WW2 was started because germany didn't like the jewish banking system that ran their country prior to it. They instead pinned their currency to labor rather than a central banking system.

 

Iran: they are under serious imperialist threat. Pakistan still - maybe. I wouldn't want to commit myself on North Korea, but no-one else needs them.

 

The same thing we do when any democracy decides it wants nukes: Nothing.

Democracies are entitled to nukes. Non-democracies are not.

Who said we were ok with North Korea having them?

Iran isnt a democracy.

 

Yeah, you just cant seem to find any actual evidence that they do. But you wont let a little thing like a complete lack of evidence stop you. LOL

You believe it. Therefore it is true. LOL

 

Then they are NOT German nukes. The control is ours, not theirs. You seem to be missing that small point.

If I lend you my car and you can drive it anywhere you want, but I own it and you can only drive it when I say it is ok...is it really your car?

According to who? Dionne Warwick and her Psychic Friends do not count as evidence on here LOL

Not all our allies have nukes.

Comic books arent real life. There are no secret bases.

Once you provide evidence other than your own opinion we will be done. Your claims are not correct by default.

 

Individuals being allowed to own weapons for self-defense, mind you first of all, is totally incomparable to nations being allowed to own weapons which will destroy many innocent people and their homes.

But what I really want to say is, the only reason why I'd support nations owning nukes is because I'm a nihilist.

 

Yes, why cant everyone just accept your opinions as fact? Why do they have to keep demanding "evidence" and "proof"? Its almost as if they think you dont know what you're talking about!

How dare they.

 

Every democracy.

 

I am a nihilist who doesn't care about the human species anymore, so Hell, why not let every rich person who can buy a nuclear weapon, own one in a bunker somewhere and also own jets which can deliver said nuke anywhere they want and trained pilots to deliver it?

 

They can own them by proxy, by being part of a democracy. There is no reason for them all to have individual nukes.

 

Germany is more powerful now than the entente because the entente is more evil than Germany has ever been.

What are we doing wrong? Selling out our own people to hold down others?

 

I have two things I would like to clear up.

First, Germany has no nukes of their own. But yes, American nukes are sitting on US bases in Germany. You guys honestly can't deny this reality.

Second, Germany is not a super power, but they have come an awful long way since 70 years ago when they were dust. I guess the same would apply to Japan and possibly for the same reasons. But they are a force to contend with.

 

This is naive. Economics have rarely proved capable of filling in for hard power. In fact, some of history's biggest trading partners have fought large wars against each other. Look at economic sanctions against Iraq, Iran, Syria, and North Korea. They haven't/didn't do that much to change outcomes in those places.

 

As you know, a 'democracy' is in practice defined as 'a country that will do as the Americans say'. Mugs are many, real democracies practically non-existent.

And Deathstar - better get active in the Republican Party: your morose cynicism is their golden truth, poor dabs.

 

I´m not sure what you want to prove with this statement. These countries are not relevant to the global economic system.

My point was that among the G20 nations a nuclear arsenal as an instrument of power projection has become irrelevant.

Obviously as can be seen during EU negotiations, in order to achieve new treaties, the economic status of Germany has been used as a powerful leverage.

 

You're completely wrong. These countries are the flashpoints for future conflicts. These wars would have profound economic impact. Germany can do very little to determine outcome or influence in this region. They can "influence" their fledgling Eastern European and debt ridden Southern European friends, but outside its immediate sphere, Germany has a very limited ability to "matter" on the international political page. Every once in a while, when it can agree with Belgium, France etc. it can, but alone it doesn't come close to China, the U.S., or even Russia. You're mistaken in believing that the EU or the UN can really put their foot down and make things happen. Much of the "political power" in Europe is a fine fog that would be burned away in any time of real conflict. The continent couldn't even intervene nextdoor in Libya without substantial U.S./NATO logistic, CC capabilties, and even direct military support.

 

Are you trying to convince somebody that intervening militarily in tiny third world countries (Syria, North Korea) or the lack of interest in doing so (Libya) is a hallmark of power ? Gimme a break, you are starting to get boring very early.

The 2 large economical, political, cultural and militarily relevant regions are the US and the EU (collective power of all members).

China needs at least 10 more years to catch up in order to play a significant role. Russia has fallen back on BRIC status, comparable with Brazil or India.

I´m not here for national promoting, but yes, Germany and France (and several other other core European countries) do manage the largest economic region on the globe, which has almost state like qualities.

 

I've noticed that Americans love to run away from discussion into wordplay, like 'Can it be racist to lynch a Lebanese, since there is no Lebanese race', or the current 'superpower' kerfuffle. Germany was down, and Germany is now very powerful. Why not get back to discussing the 'why' of that?

 

LOL, so what? That still does not make them German nukes!

The Germans have no control over those nukes. They cant launch them. They cant even shut them down. Only we can do that.

Mostly because of the US. We helped them rebuild after we obliterated the Nazis.

I'm not saying Germany sucks (they are obviously a major economic power), but they are not remotely a super power. By definition, Super powers have massive political/military/economic influence on a global scale. Germany does not have that.

 

We have discussed it. The answer is: they had help.

 

The interesting question is 'WHY?'

 

....and please stop the absurd chit chat about Germany having nukes, whatsoever.

Fact is, US nuclear warheads are based in Germany. The US and Germany are NATO allies. A few years ago Sarkozy offered Germany (very briefly) to share responsiblity with French nukes, Germany denied this because of irrelevant strategic importance.

One strong asset Germany has is cultural / soft power. Because over decades it has built up a model society many even highly developed nations respect, unlike China or Russia for instance. This reputation of being successful and reliable is a core strength in the global diplomatic arena.

 

Because we felt sorry for them. We blew up their country.

 

Germany and France "manage" a loose coalition of dozens of economically, culturally, and politically diverse countries. They excerise nothing like the control a single state's central government has over an economy. The recent debt crisis and a whole host of other issues has more than shown this to be the case. In fact, its rather pathetic that these countries feel entitled to count all these soveriegn countries as under their "management"...not to mention arrogant. I can only imagine what countries not named Belgium, France, or Germany must feel when they're told this.

This discussion is on Germany as a superpower. In order to be a superpower a country must have the political, economic, and military power to influence the world. Germany has the economic power, comes up short on its own politically, and falls far short militarily. Outside of Europe, Germany as an individual country, has relatively little influence in the world. When it acts in concert with the EU, NATO, or the UN this influence is magnified, but these organizations have hardly proven infallible during controversy. Germany relies on these organizations for the majority of its political/military power and when infighting or a single Security Council veto casts its ugly shadow, German influence dissipates.

China has a much larger economy than Germany does as well as a Security Council Veto. Militarily they are only really a factor within their own region, but their massive size and commitment to upgrading shows this could change soon. Russia is lacking economically, but it again wields a Security Council Veto and is extremely powerful militarily. Its massive size also makes it quite a power in both Europe and Asia. The only true superpower today in my mind is the United States.

The idea of a "superpower" may seem backwards or uncivilized, but this is the discussion at hand. Germany does not meet the criteria for superpower. It does excersise serious influence at all corners of the world and has shown no desire (for better or worse) to pay much attention to what's going on outside their region. We can sit here and pretend that diplomacy and globalization mean that raw force is no longer king, but I think we all know that deep down below the layer of international good will, it all comes down to brute force and ones willingness to use it. 3000 years of human history support this position.

 

The OP made a bold assertion that many of us don't agree with. You can't insist that we restrain our opinions and agree with him as a prerequisites of joining in the discussion.