Why would anyone want to fly a confederate flag?

Then they are wrong, because it is a csa flag.

 

You should be whining to the poster who made the original comment. It sure wasn't obvious to him.

 

Why are you so interested in the American Civil War anyway? It had literally no impact on the rest of the world, much to the CSA's disappointment since it wanted to bring one of the European Powers into the war.

The causes of the civil war are still the same, though under political lines: The Northern Liberals get to do whatever they want, and the Southern States simply have to accept that. Until and unless the North becomes "less liberal"(or the South becomes less conservative), this country's going to go the way of Rome.

 

Only in a few ignorant people's opinions. I don't associate the two at all.

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No kidding right? Lol. Talk about dwelling in the past. Slavery is illegal and not an issue anymore. These people are throwing a hissy fit over a flag. Too funny.

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Whining? Lol. Do you know what whining is? It seems like your "friends" here are doing the most whining over a flag and a war that ended over 100 years ago. Yikes.

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It symbolizes whatever the person looking at it feels it symbolizes. Are you going to try to force everyone else to view the flag as you do? Well, sorry but you aren't the thought police.

 

Because i find it very disturbing that a large part of the USA believes in myths and lies, are in denial, refuse to face their history. I find it problematic that they try to excuse the csa, talk of the cw as if there was a moral equivalency, downplaying the fact that one side fought for slavery. Some pretend slavery wasnt an issue in the cw.. denying obvious facts. Some even try to defend slavery, sayibg it wasnt so bad, or even that it was good. Honestly, its all seriously fecked up that people can do that even today. Americans, southerners in particular, need to deal with their history, because they obviously have some issues with it still, some psychological trauma.

 

To me, there wasn't a moral equivalency but an economic necessity for the South at the time. I don't believe slavery is right, but I believe the North could have(if it wanted to) negotiate a peaceful end to the civil war, the main problem was the immediate abolition of slavery. You really can't be sitting here and saying that if you were a Southerner, you'd watch your crops and production go to ZIP.

The old saying is that the "path to hell is paved off of good intentions." I feel I'm facing history, precisely because I acknowledge the South did wrong things(slavery was wrong) and the North did bad things(forcing the South to war.) 15 minutes and a cup of coffee, changes everything.

The Framers were moving at a good pace, why couldn't Lincoln continue that pace?

 

What ?!!!!! They didn't have the means to go anywhere else, and why did the sou'f institute Jim crow laws after ya'll got you backward asses whipped ? If there was any real justice General Sherman should have been able to finish the job off burning the entire confederacy and its supports til nothing was left for the white southerners, we wouldn't have to be dealing with that backward racist region and its white christian party today

 

The myth that the south was backwards sure did not show that during the ACW. Matter of fact, battle per battle, Lee and his troops inflicted way more losses on Grant than Grant did to Lee.

If your part of the country was destroyed as the outlaw Abe had done, you would also look backwards.

 

The fact is that the Civil War did not free the blacks, it enslaved the rest of the citizens. You are a groveling slave today because of your support of the Federal Government and its authoritarian dictatorship. Now get on your knees and kiss the governments ass while you give them your money and your manhood Nancy.

 

SG should never fret over the South. The north inflicted plenty of injustices on a heck of a lot of people. Let the north first have clean hands.

https://www.thenation.com/article/largest-mass-execution-us-history-150-years-ago-today/

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To listen to modern blacks, Abe did not come close to freeing them. I am shocked they like Abe the Outlaw president.

 

You simply have read the wrong books.

Bear in mind who teaches our children.

Democrats do.

Where do people get news from?

Democrats.

It goes on and on. By you listening to Democrats, they caught you in the web of deceit.

I don't think any of us pretend a thing about slavery.

Slavery was an important component to the South leaving.

Stop right there.

War was Abe's brilliant idea.

His war so he claimed had nothing to do with Slavery.

Since he started the war at Manassas, VA you need to argue the point with him or those like him.

We have people posting that really believe in the mass killing of more than 630,000 humans. And why?

They claim over slavery.

Pathetic.

I bring up past slave owning presidents to make a very good point. When the leader of the Union owns slaves, it is pathetic to mock others who owned slaves as if the dozen presidents were fine men but the plantation owners were scoundrels.

 

It has meanings; they're just not based on the confides of your say so.

You can change it's meaning any time you wish. I don't have to take a middle finger from you as positive, or negative. Nor does anyone else.

I don't know how far you plan on going by arguing something that is clearly normative.

But they all mean different things, regardless of what you think it should mean. That is the point.

All you've done was merely moved from a bad argument to a dumb argument. It doesn't matter if you're a foreigner or not; if you don't identify with the culture than you can't dictate what the cultural significant of the flag is. Well, that is not necessarily true. You can dictate what the cultural significant of the flag is, but it will just be one of your many opinions with no factual backing.

It's already been well established that most people (as in the majority) don't idenitfy the flag with negative connotatios; this is also from people who don't identify with that particular culture. The flag represents a particular culture, and culture is symbolic communication. The stop symbol doesn't mean stop simply because one person decided it should take on that meaning. Rather, the meanings of the symbols are learned and deliberately perpetuated in a society through multiple forms. The behaviors, beliefs, values, and symbols that they accept, generally without thinking about them, and that are passed along by communication and imitation from one generation to the next. So you can look at a CSA flag just like anyone can look at an American flag and determine that it should have negative connotations, and at the end of the day, it will be nothing more than an opinion; an opinion based on behaviors, beliefs and values you've choosen to accept, but an opinion nontheless.

So if you're going to make the case that the CSA should have negative connotations, you're already going to have a difficult time because societal and historical evidence is already not on your side.

Again, you're not going to get much argument from me on something that is clearly subjective, normative and baseless (i.e. your opinion).

 

Leaving means becoming a truly sovereign entity. A1S10 lists several powers that either require federal approval for their exercise or are denied to the states outright, all of which a seceding state would implicitly lay claim to.

You're welcome.

 

Well, that just means your view is not actually aligned with reality. And many will tell you so, including a few credentialed experts.

That settles it with me, as far as what you've got to share.

 

You're incompetent to render such a judgment. The only people who can possibly be competent are Americans; and what that flag symbolizes to this American is Dukes of Hazzard, NASCAR, Lynyrd Skynyrd and not much else.

 

What you are sensing, is something Black Americans KNOW 'intuitively'. It is why America is greatly troubled to this day, especially in its ethnic relations with those who are descendants of African slaves. So many are in denial, seeking to sidestep the legacy effects of slavery which have been poorly dealt with (as far as the nation's actual conscience). And truly, how 'convenient' it surely is for those of us who may be White to simply say... "I didn't own slaves." or "Slavery ended a long time ago." Meanwhile, it is beyond obvious the anti-Black racism is embedded within this nation's institutions and culture. If anyone is in doubt, just look at the problems with law enforcement and Black Americans. I mean... what the HELL??!!! It's terrible.

Too many people not only want to hold onto the rebellious spirit of the South and the CSA... they are seeking to revive it. And at the very least, that is one reason I personally DESPISE any symbols related to the "Confederacy".

It is EVIL STUFF!!!

 

Nonsense. If it were not for the Federal Government... Blacks would have been more oppressed today, than they are. The Southern states certainly would not have helped them to be more liberated (especially where it concerned VOTING or Civil Rights).

Thank goodness for the Federal Government. Surely, I can see where the racists of the South then/now, don't care so much for the Federal Government.

 

Who can be a "credentialed expert" on something that is clearly normative? You either believe that the flag has a negative connotation or you don't.

Most people don't have a positive or negative connotation. They see it as "just a flag," and rightfully so.

 

Yea, you get on your knees and worship the Federal Government, as it is your master and you are its slave.....

 

No, it's not about that at all. Still... I just can't overlook how wrong you are about the Federal Government.

 

What does that mean?

The first of the founding documents is the Declaration of Independence.

This happened with no vote approved by the public.

The South asked for approval. The public granted approval. The people in this country are more important than government structure much less rules.

The south was correct.

 

Abe cured that. Remember how grateful blacks are that he cured their problems?

 

The were southern abolitionists, and if I was a southerner back then I'd be one of them. transitioning away from slavery wasn't impossible.. It could easily be done without too much trouble if it was done gradually and if people were compensated. But the rich slave owners, who controller southern society and politics, of course didn't want that because it would mean less money for them. But for the average southerner it would hardly bring the kind of disaster you say.

It may be true that the union didn't initially fight to abolish slavery.. BUT the south fought to defend slavery.

the plantation owners were scoundrels, but so was perhaps anyone who owned slave also. But the big difference is that the south set out to form a new country and even wage a war just in order to defend slavery. That's different.

No. It is not even a judgement.. It's a statement of fact. All I am saying is that the national flag of the CSA represents the CSA. Its you people who have the problem of trying to deny that..

Yeah the point is that it is indeed normative, and that means that the meanings depend on the context and norms, which means that you can't just change the meaning at will, and that you are wrong.

I suppose your argument would make more sense if we were talking about something like a spoken sound, or a hand gesture.. something which hadn't been written down with a codified meaning. However, we are speaking of a flag.. A flag which was made to be the symbol of a country. It's meaning is written down in documents.. it was from the start defined by law to represent the CSA. There is no bloody ambiguity.

 

Alas, translation of plain English into plain English is not among my talents, apologies for any inconvenience.

So you don't get representative government. Not my problem.

"The public" in the Confederate states had no more authority to grant any meaningful approval than cities have to declare themselves sanctuaries for illegal aliens.

So the way you figure it, the American people can hold a referendum to repeal the Constitution by a simple majority vote. Got that about right, haven't I?

Of course it was, in the eyes of constitutional illiterates.

Yes.

Who the hell do you think you're kidding?

Only to people who don't know what the hell they're talking about.

No, you're saying it must represent that to me.

And it doesn't.

 

The CSA flag doesn't represent the CSA.. that's what you're saying.