Why would anyone want to fly a confederate flag?

No, what I'm saying is exactly what I said.

 

Why? The same reason black people fly it here in Birmingham. Because to them, it represents southern heritage and the beloved area of the country they live, not hate.

Glad I helped clear up your confusion.

 

(Assuming the above claim is correct, which is giving it far more than it deserves,) What a tragedy that George Washington, who so brilliantly conducted the Revolutionary War, at such great personal sacrifice, and was instrumental in creating the United States of America, was not perfect, like all you Democrats, and Leftists. The sanctimonious pretensions of Democrats, liberals and Leftists are as sickening as they are widespread.

 

Lol! You think a person needs a "credentialed expert" to tell them how to interpret a symbol? I suppose people like you need your mommy and daddy to tell you what to think of things/symbols, etc. The rest of us adults are capable of assigning our own meanings to these symbols.

Why don't you just slink away, while realizing how foolish and silly you are?

 

Symbols can and have be changed for any particular occasion. We have done it for centuries, whether you agree with that or you don't.

A flag is not a symbol of a country; it represents a country, place or thing. A symbol, on the other hand, represents an idea. A country is not an idea; its an tangible entity. And symbols are open to interpretation, whether you like it or not.

No. No, it isn't. You just made that up.

 

You obviously live in some lalaland where everything is relative and nothing has any meaning. I'm usually patient, but what you are saying is so stupid on a fundamental level that I won't bother. you and chris, two special snowflakes living in a world where anything can mean anything. have fun.

 

Hey Sven, you Swedes are so brilliant that you allowed 1.5 million immigrants from the Third World to live with you in your country.
Now they're committing crimes and raping your women daily. Rapes have increased 15-fold. I understand that most of the lovely folks in jail are your newly arrived Muslim immigrants. Hey that multiculturalism is really swell, isn't it, poor boy. For Euro-trash, you sure do shoot your mouth off a lot.

 

I see you're having more of those ESL issues, so I'll explain it the easiest way I can. A symbol has a meaning; the symbol can have different meanings to different people.

And I'm not sure who lives in the lalaland at this point. You think it's impossible for symbols to have more than one meaning; you think it's impossible for symbols to have evolved over time, and you think absolutely nothing is open for interpretation.

I'm not sure how long you expect to last in the real world without understanding these concepts. Then again, you're from Sweden, which is practically the Saudia Arabia of the west.

I think I've identified your problem here. You been regurgitating what you think are facts about the world when instead they're your own subjective nonsense. However, you haven't realized is that your dopey opinions are just opinions like everyone else.

 

oh my, I think I'm being subjected to ethnic slurs and abuse. somebody help me! u mad bro? U seem mad.

 

kay fine, one last try, but bloody read (and understand) what I write. details are important.

NO, i didn't say that. Symbols can have more than one meaning. I don't deny that the CSA flag means southern pride or whatever. BUT the point is that in addition to that, it also represents the CSA.

It's you people who think that, just because southerners think it stands for southern pride, the original CSA meaning is somehow lost. It isn't. it's still there, because symbols can indeed have more than one meaning.

So, get this or I'm done trying to explain it to you: I'm not saying the CSA flag is only racist. I'm saying that in addition to whatever other meaning people might give it, it also still has the original racist meaning.

 

Well, you nailed reality 'again' with that post!! Thank you.

Even so, I know you realize that this thread is what I will now refer to as:

the "Den of Denial".

If a person can't quote a reputable historian's view of what various symbols of the South, Confederacy/CSA actually mean... then they are relying on their feelings/opinions of what they mean. They may certainly have a right to do that... but that will NEVER be the same as defining 'reality'.

In that sense, it is very much like 'religion'; it's only 'real' to those who 'believe'.

 

No. In fact, anyone can 'imagine' things to be whatever they wish.

What they cannot do, is expect other to embrace THEIR imagined reality, nor expect to be found accurate or realistic amongst those who are learned, as it pertains to the same.

So fine... I realize that people may FEEL a certain way about the Confederacy and its 'symbols'... but I can just as readily accept that their view, perspective or feelings, do not necessarily reflect the reality things as they were/are.

BTW, it is like that with 'religion' as well.

 

Yeah, it's ad hominem. But of course just ignore that BS. I've learned that people who are overly hostile or abusive to me, are better placed on 'ignore'. They distract from the topic WAY TOO MUCH.

 

That is 'exactly' correct!!

But understand... the United States of America has been affected by racist views and attitudes, which are literally embedded within its history, heritage and culture.

Do you see our current problems with law enforcement?! Well, those who are in 'denial' of the truth (that racism here is SYSTEMIC), are essentially becoming complicit in promoting existing issues. They aren't helping and that is virtually certain.

Even so, as a true RED, WHITE, BLUE American... I'm certain that the way we deny or try to overlook racism here, seems like a mental disease; and it needs to cease or be corrected.

Anyone saying that the Old South, the Confederacy or the CSA wasn't about racism (chattel slavery)... is just throwing up intellectual dust. That is a person that is in denial (of some form or the other).

 

Be more practical if you can. Look at this from the vantage point of the slave.

What is the occupation of a slave?

Say his occupation is to tend cotton fields.

Were would said slave find a job if not on the plantation?

Do you believe that the ranchers mistreat horses? I mean would you think it would be common to mistreat your livestock?

Try to put slaves into the same context as farm animals. But able to chat with the owners.

Ignore movies. They represent a tiny part of a slaves life.


What plantations have you actually visited? You may be passing judgement on places you really can't understand.

But back to finding a job. What sort of job would you think a slave can locate given his lack of skills that he can market? And where would he market them to? Today blacks in the USA tell us they have enormous problems locating jobs based on the high number of them out of work.

Given we have so many blacks out of work, yet our native Democrats crave more people abandon their country to live in the US illegally. Slaves at that time also were seen as illegal occupants to a lot of people.

 

This "original racist meaning" can be open for debate. It can be argued (and has been argued) that the confederate states succeeded and they just needed a flag to represent their independence, like all other sovereign nations. This is why the confederate flag has had many different adaptations during the 4 years of the Civil War. It doesn't mean that the flag isn't tied to racism; if you believe it is, so what?

The question you are asking is "why would anyone want to fly a confederate flag?" People are tell you why. You're telling them that they're wrong and people have a problem with that, especially since you now acknowledge that symbols are capable of having different meanings.

An original racist meaning may have relevance at some point in history, but we're not living in history; we're living in 2016. We don't tell Christians that they shouldn't wear crosses because of what previous followers did during the crusades; we don't tell Buddhist not to adopt the Swastika simply because of what some Nazis have done; I'm not sure why you believe it should be different for the Confederate Flag.

 

Suppose you wake up tomorrow and learn that the Muslims view your flag as racist?

Does this mean you also must accept your flag as being racist?

You are telling Americans that vary in view on flags, they must think your way.

My reasons to own my CSA battle flag that I know from a historical point represented the way the combat forces kept separated, which I will explain next, and that it why it is called the Battle flag and not the flag of the CSA.

The actual CSA flag is different.

The CSA flag was so similar to the flag of the US that in the field, a new flag had to be with the combat units.

The other way to tell one side from the other is the uniform. I can tell from the photos of the dead on the field of battle, not all had the combat uniform on. I think the union forces did a better job of uniforms all during the war.

I am open to added data on the CSA uniform problem.

Still, each unit had the battle flags.

The hateful acts of the KKK really got super bad around 1910 into the 1920s. I mean all the hangings of blacks. Some think that was common a lot earlier. But the KKK was never formed to harm blacks. It was an organization to help whites recover from the war. Bedford Forest was not pleased by some of the changes so resigned from the group. A lot blame him for the KKK yet he was not the founder, just a joiner.

I don't happen to flaunt my CSA flag. I don't walk around waving it or showing it off. I keep it as a memo of my visits to the battlefields in the East of the USA. I also, and for the same reason keep my US flag safe as well. I could fly it no problem but even it is a keepsake of my trip to the sunken USS AZ lying in the shallow harbor at Pearl Harbor.

So, you should get off the kick we with our flags have them to be racists.

I often try to explain to the readers that mostly the concept of racism seems to be in the mind of the name callers more than in the minds of those they call the names to.

We enjoy freedom to some degree in the USA. We are being regulated daily with the urging of Democrats who want all individual freedoms to be tightly regulated with regulations extremely enforced. This is not Sweden. We have, as I recall, more people living in my local area than Sweden has in it's entire country. I expect Sweden is run by it's cities that the rural people are whom you have problems with. Even in this argument, clearly you can tell who wants us tightly regulated vs who wants our personal freedoms to stand strong.

I am a personal freedom person. Some posters arguments brand them as a lot more the servant to bureaucrats in DC.They do not realize, I believe, that they admit to hating religion, but love the cult of being under the control of men.

Men in DC for instance are to rule us as if we were peasants.

It is a real problem trying to hold onto freedom. I really love being in the company of we few on the forum that work very diligently to stop people from losing personal freedom.

ChemEngineer is an outstanding example of a person that understands and values personal liberty. We have posters of his kind as well. I only use him since you wanted him runned down over his comments about your own problems in Sweden.

 

Believe it or not, the reason why they so far have not passed laws to ban racism is that it still is legal.

They need to think that over. So far, anybody can be racist no matter the race of the other party.

Blacks are intensely racist. That happens to be one of their personal freedoms.

But let's not use it to call posters names. I understand why blacks are racists too. I do not really resent them being racists.

I also know that a lot of blacks are not racists either. It has a way to balance out.

 

Still waiting for this to be defined.

 

maybe he'd continue to work at the plantation as a free worker, or he'd move to other low skilled jobs. The starting situation of newly freed slaves is obviously not very good, but once they are free they can start to improve their situation. If they are continually kept in slavery, their situation will not improve.

you truly are a horrible person.

Do you think that blacks should be enslaved again, is that what you're saying?

Read carefully: I am only saying they are wrong IF they are saying that the CSA flag doesn't represent the CSA and thus racism. I'm not saying that has to be the only meaning, but it is indisputably ONE of the meanings.

Oh yeah.. and and what point did it become "history"? Segregation was just a few decades ago ffs...

Buddhist and swastika example is stupid. Buddhists never were nazis, but southernes once were the CSA. It's a totally ridiculous comparison... They had a completely different tradition of using the swastika. A comparison with germans and swastikas is better. Yes, I can tell a german it's inapropriate for him to fly a nazi flag, because a swastika has a certain meaning in german history. Similarily, the CSA flag has a certain meaning in southern history..

I don't deny that the Swedish flag is originally a crusader cross and thus has an inherent christian meaning.

yes, yes, yes, I know of the many flags of the CSA. but what difference does it make? They all represent the CSA.

I'm not arguing for limiting your freedom.. I am just saying it's stupid to fly a racist flag if you're not a racist.

He's an example of an irrational idiot who writes knee jerk emotional posts. The kind of person who, if eugenics was still practiced today, would not be allowed to spread his inferior incestual genes.

 

That's an association fallacy.

It became "history" when when schools started teaching it in "history class." It has certainly been more than a few.

Buddhist doesn't have to be Nazis, just like I or anyone else doesn't have to be a Nazi. Nazi is merely short for Nationalsozialismus, which means National Socialist in German. You don't need to German to be a National Socialist (former and current) any more than you need to be a Nazi in order to utilize the swastika. If a light skinned person utilized the swastika, I might infer that this person was a Buddhist. Others might infer that he might be a Neo-Nazi.

Anyone who was part of the CSA is long gone and dead. Any southerners alive doesn't make them part of the CSA, so I don't know why you even decided to bring it up.

Let's just pretend that your comparison isn't a bad comparison (which it is, because Western Germany outlawed the use of the Nazi Flag), all you're simply doing is using the association fallacy. Again, we don't tell people that they cannot use symbols they want because the symbols previously were used in a negative fashion.

 

Obviously you don't know what an association fallacy is...

the ussr is history.. nazi germany is history... I suppose that means sickle and hammer and swastikas don't mean anything huh?

national socialist german worker's party. I meant nazi as in the original nazi party, which was german.

Because people like you are denying obvious facts, that's why I bring it up.

I'm not speaking of individuals, but of nations. No, not every southern person was part of the csa, and certianly none alive today. But the southern NATION (or whatever you want to call it) was the CSA. just like the german nation was nazi germany once. So, it's different if a german uses a swastika, than if an indian does. Indians do not have the same history with swastikas as germans do. ffs this is obvious stuff.. That you don't already understand this makes me lose faith in humanity.

 

Because (*)(*)(*)(*) you, that's why.

 

Maybe you will listen to a black man.

[video=youtube;9kry_VfFSh4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9kry_VfFSh4[/video]

 

lol! But yeah, 'FU' seem to be the reason many cite, being intentionally provocative.. When did it become cool to be an attention whore though? I must have missed that.