Why you'll go to hell

Baptist clergy do not reject my authority, and I don't reject theirs.As usual, if anybody is going to challenge any minister's authority, it will be the laity. The only beliefs I find to be heretical are the beliefs of heretics, but once again, atheists think they know better and insist on lumping the heretics in with us so they can blame us for their beliefs. Likewise, atheists like to make more of doctrinal differences than is there.

 

There is only one of me, and having been 'in the fold' for the majority of my life, I understand what hell is supposed to be well enough. Contrary to what you say, plenty of Christians equate hell to the "lake of fire," and not without reason. Maybe you would say those Christians have inaccurate and silly ideas about what hell is, eh? Maybe you consider yourself an expert above other Christians.

Of course, none of this has to do with what I said to you before. I reiterate:

If you wonder why people are annoyed at being told by charlatans that they're going to suffer for all eternity, without any hope of escape, for not believing in absurd and demonstrably false claims, then try placing yourself in their shoes. Some people just don't like it when others try to BS them like that. It's not a nice thing to say, especially to anyone who is especially gullible (such as children). Why don't you contemplate the emotional effects that kind of threat can have?

Nothing there about fire or even torture per se, but suffering. Hell is supposed to be a place of suffering. That's what we hear repeatedly. It is a tool, threat, used to try and force acceptance of Christianity as a belief and practice. It is used, in conjunction with the powerful (but still fictitious, in this case) idea of self-sacrifice and the promise of eternal paradise. The holy trinity of Christian selling points, if you will.

 

Baptists reject the notion of authority instilled in priests through apostolic succession. Baptists, likewise, do not believe that their clergy have a special authority to speak on behalf of all Christians anymore than their lay members do. Like many Protestants, they preach the priesthood of all believers.

These denominations would not exist if the "doctrinal differences" were not considered significant enough to justify the division that Christians, not atheists, have created for themselves. You may consider the issue of adult baptism vs infant baptism to be insignificant -- I have yet to meet a Baptist who would agree. You may consider celebrating the Sabbath on Saturday vs Sunday to be insignificant -- I have yet to meet a 7th Day Adventist who would agree. You may, oddly, consider the issue of apostolic succession to be insignificant. You may consider Mary's significance to be a side issue. You may consider the continued existence of spiritual gifts like tongues to be insignificant -- I have yet to meet a Pentecostal who would agree.

I see no reason why Christians should be embarrassed by this diversity of thought (similar divisions exist in my own religion), but pretending that they don't exist, or that the people who have enshrined these differences don't actually care about them that much, is simply baffling.

Atheists have nothing to do with the countless schisms in Christianity. Blaming them on us is silly.

 

What 'religion' do you practice? Good posting on your part.

 

It is interesting that in today's society corporal punshment of children is considered to be damaging and yet we Consider it acceptable to threaten them with eternal physical punishment as a way of making them believe in God.

 

Buddhism, specifically Soto Zen. As with Christianity, there are a lot of schisms within Buddhism. For example, more than once I've had people quote the Dalai Lama to me as if I should consider him my spiritual leader; however, he's a leader of a specific group within tantric Buddhism, and I don't belong to that group.

 

Did I claim to be an expert? My only claim is that someone who can say that only Baptists use grape juice is certainly no expert. But I did make one mistake by saying protestant when I meant Presbyterian.

And I will tell you why I don't consider myself an expert if you will tell all of us why you do consider yourself an expert about religion. College degree in theology perhaps?

 

I don't recall seeing anyone mention Buddhism in this thread, so now I wonder
why you would write this statement: "Atheists have nothing to do with the countless schisms in Christianity. Blaming them on us is silly." Who is the "us"?

 

That's why I mentioned my religion as a parenthetical, show its similarity to Christianity in the specific observation I was making, clarifying that I did not see said diversity of thought to be something to be embarrassed about.

"Us" refers to atheists like myself.

 

Thank you for clarifying.

 

The "priesthood of the laity" is an often misunderstood concept. While everyone agrees that the laity are expected to spread the Gospel, few are actually trained to administer the sacraments, and even the Baptists will tell you that. As a practical matter, presiding over a service every weekend, never mind two or three, and a midweek service may look easy but that's because the guys who are good at it make it look easy. This is not to mention trying to wrangle a 1000 soul congregation. The laity can talk trash all they want to but they simply can't step into a Baptist minister's shoes without years of training. This is where the ordination of clergy is impotant.

The issue is not over adult baptism vs. Infant baptism, the issue is immersion vs. Sprinkling. The Baptists INSIST that immersion is the only way despite the fact that the Didache plainly says that both can be used. It's not as cut and dried as some people make it out to be.

 

I've never met a Baptist who holds that any sort of special office is required for administering sacraments. Any Baptist can perform a baptism. Any Baptist can administer the Lord's Supper. Aside from Baptism, sacraments play a very minor role in the Baptist faith, and they typically don't even like the term "sacrament." The first hour of my baptism was spent with the preacher explaining how he was not God's intermediary and that the baptism was an outward sign of an inward change, not a special sacrament administered by a "priest."

I don't recall saying anything about training not being beneficial when it comes to administration. I'm specifically talking about the issue of authority. Baptists have no priests, aside from their belief in the priesthood of all believers.They don't care about apostolic succession. No Baptist, lay or clergy (and lay and clergy Baptists hate that distinction, by the way) would buy your claim to have special authority within Christianity.

Adult baptism is, indeed, a very big issue for Baptists. Baptists INSIST on adult baptism.

I've never met a Baptist who cared what the Didache had to say. They are typically sola scriptura all the way.

 

http://www.answering-christianity.com/101_bible_contradictions.htm

http://www.jewfaq.org/m/613.htm
Checkout numbers:
196,197,199,285,287,288,300,301,302,308,334,358,359,368,387,572,585,601,602,604,613

 

I do not believe in doing someone elses homework. If you have something to point out, then spit it out... don't expect me to chase after a wild goose.

 

Folks like you believe a tornado can blow through a junk yard and leave a fully functional 767 in it's wake.

 

Well, I spent years in the Baptist Church and I never saw a layman baptize anyone and I never saw a layman preside over the Lord's Supper, except to pass out the trays that had the shot glasses with the grape juice in them. I never saw a layman preside over a funeral, a wedding, or any other service of the church, and from my recollection, they had a great deal of respect for their clergy, as much respect as they had for anybody, which was not much, not even each other sometimes.

And I have attended Baptist services as Clergy myself and been treated with manners, so I don't know what Baptists you are talking about, I have even explained infant baptism without having a hockey game break out.

And they probably don't know what the Didache is.

 

Yes, Baptists generally respect the experience and dedication of their clergy. This does not amount, however, to ascribing to them some sort of special divine authority over other believers. Nowhere did I say anything about respect or disrespect. I'm talking about authority. Baptists do not believe that their clergy have special authority to speak for Christianity. If you've met Baptists, you know that they consider the BIBLE their primary authority, being the Word of God, not their pastor.

Okay. Where did I say anything about manners?

Baptists believe in the priesthood of all believers and in credobaptism. Those are the Baptists I'm talking about. Sidetracking to "manners" and "respect" doesn't actually address anything that I've said.

Again . . . okay. I never said anything about fights. I said Baptists believe in adult baptism and consider it a big deal. I can link to a ton of articles if you'd like.

Try something out: walk up to any Baptist and say, "As a priest and successor to the Apostles, I have the authority to speak for Christianity and for God in a way that laypeople don't." I'm not saying there will be a physical fight, but if you have any experience with Baptists at all, you know they'll reject your assertion.

 

Not entirely true. Scripture also teaches this "Mat 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them." If their conduct does not portray that of a "priest" of the living God, then 'yes' they will be rejected when they make such a claim. The scripture also teaches/warns against the sin of pride... and IMHO,,, it would be prideful of any person to make such a claim without first having displayed his/her credentials through a conduct that is showing that God is working through that person.

 

Exactly. Richard Dawkins rightly calls that child abuse.

 

That has nothing to do with what I said...I was referring to your OP on the "after-life".

Now, True or False.....according to Christianity, God DEMANDS our love...and if He gets it he gives you endless happiness for all time.....but if He doesn't get it, you get tortured fall all time?

True or False?

- - - Updated - - -

What is your official title or ordained position? Priest of the RCC? Denominational minister? (which denomination)? Bishop?

what?

 

You might want to re-think your position. See here :

http://www.myflfamilies.com/service-programs/abuse-hotline/frequently-asked-questions
"
[h=1]Frequently Asked Questions[/h]


[h=2]Frequently Asked Questions:[/h] [h=3] 1. What is abuse?[/h] For children: "Abuse" means any willful act or threatened act that results in any physical, mental, or sexual injury or harm that causes or is likely to cause the child's physical, mental, or emotional health to be significantly impaired. Abuse of a child includes acts or omissions. Corporal discipline of a child by a parent or legal custodian for disciplinary purposes does not in itself constitute abuse when it does not result in harm to the child."


Don't you just love the way bureaucrats use vague and ambiguous language.... significantly.... harm... injure... abuse... which leaves the subject matter to the capricious intents of those that read the writings of the bureaucrats.

 

I provided you easy access to the proof you asked. I can't make it any easier. You need to view it or admit I'm right.

 

All without any explanation from your own perspective... a requirement of the terms of service on this forum. You might want to read that document.

 

There are people who die in cults. There are also thousands of people who are pretty messed up sexually because religion taught their parents that they should be freaking weirdos about sex. Not to mention, anyone who voluntarily wakes up on Sunday morning to go to church is clearly committing abuse.

 

It's self explanatory. I stated the bible has contradictions, immoral laws and brutal punishments. You asked for proof, I provided it. Stop with dodging and dispute it or admit I'm right. I'm saying the book is nothing but Jewish fables and in now way reflects a omniscient loving being.