Interesting musings of an old man.. Things to consider .....Global spying. Global economy. Global governance??? Will Israel exist 90 years from now? http://www.arabnews.com/news/471111 Uri Avnery Published Tuesday 2 November 2010 Last update 2 November 2013 1:15 am Author: Uri Avnery Tue, 2010-11-02 03:09 Will Israel exist in another 90 years? The very question is typical of Israel. No one would take it seriously in England or Germany, or even in other states born from immigration, like Australia or the US. Yet in Israel, people speak of existential dangers all the time. A Palestinian state is an existential danger. The Iranian bomb is an existential danger. Why? They will have their bomb, we have our bomb and there will be a balance of terror. So what? There is something in our national character that fosters self-doubt and uncertainty. The Holocaust? Perhaps an unconscious sense of guilt? A result of eternal war, or even the reason for it? Let me state right from the beginning: Yes, I believe Israel will exist in 90 years. But what kind of Israel? Will it be a country your great-great-great-grandsons and daughters will be proud of? A state they will want to live in? On the day the state was founded, I was 24. My comrades and I, soldiers in our new army, didnt think the event was very important. We were preparing ourselves for the battle that was to take place that night and the speeches of politicians in Tel-Aviv did not really interest us. We knew that if we won the war there would be a state, and if not, there would be neither a state nor us. I am not a nostalgic person. I have no nostalgia for Israel before (the war of) 1967, as some of my colleagues here have expressed. A lot was wrong then, too. Huge amounts of Arab property were expropriated. But lets not look back. Lets look at Israel as it is now, and ask ourselves: Where do we go from here? If Israel continues on its present course, there will be disaster. The first stage will be apartheid. It already exists in the occupied territories and it will spread to Israel proper. The descent into the abyss will not be dramatic or precipitous; it will be gradual, almost imperceptible. Slowly pressure on Israel will grow. Demographics will do their work. Sometime before the 90 years are up, Israel will be compelled to grant civil rights to the Palestinians. There will be an Arab majority. Israel will be an Arab-majority state. Some people may welcome that. But it will be the end of the Zionist dream. Zionism will become a historic episode. This state will be just another country where Jews live as a minority those who remain here. There are those who say: There just is no solution. If so, we should all obtain foreign passports. Some dream of the so-called one-state solution. Well, during the last half-century, many states in which diverse nations lived together have broken apart. A partial list: The Soviet Union, Cyprus, Yugoslavia, then Serbia, Czechoslovakia, Sudan. There has not been a single instance of two nations freely uniting in one state. Not one. I am not afraid of any military threat. There is no real danger. In our time, no country possessing nuclear arms can be destroyed by force. We are quite able to defend ourselves. Rather, I am afraid of internal dangers: The implosion of our intellectual standards, the proliferation of a parasitical orthodox establishment, and especially emigration. All over the world, people are becoming more and more mobile. Families disperse. Zionism is a two-way street. If you can be a good Jew in Los Angeles as well as in Tel Aviv, why stay here? The connection between Israel and the worlds Jews will become weaker. That is natural. We are a new nation, rooted in this country. That is the real aim. Our relations with the diaspora will be like, say, between Australia and England. I want to raise a basic question: Will nationalism itself survive? Will it be supplanted by new collective modes of organization and ideologies? I think nationalism will continue to exist. In the last century, no power has succeeded in overcoming it. The internationalist Soviet Union has collapsed and left nothing behind but a rampant, racist nationalism. Communism succeeded only when it took a ride on nationalism, like in Vietnam and China. Religion succeeded when it took a hike on nationalism, like in Iran. Wherein lies the power of nationalism? It seems that the human being needs a sense of belonging, belonging to a certain culture, tradition, historic memories (real or invented), homeland, language. I shall pose the question in a different way: Will the nation-state survive? In factual terms, the nation-state is an anachronism. It came into being during the last three centuries because the economic need for a large local market, the military need for an adequate army and so forth required a state the size of, say, France. But now almost all these functions have been taken over by regional blocs like the EU. This is the reason for a curious phenomenon: While nation-states join larger unions, they themselves break up into smaller units. Scots, Corsicans, the Flemish, Catalonians, Basques, Chechnians, French Canadians and many more are seeking independence. Why? A Scotsman thinks that an independent Scotland can join the EU and reap all the benefits, without having to suffer English snobbery. Local nationalism trumps larger nationalism. So where will we be in 90 years, at the beginning of the 22nd century? When I was born in 1923, an Austrian nobleman named Count Nikolaus Coudenhove-Kalergi called for a pan-European movement in order to create the United States of Europe. At the time, a few years after World War I and a few years before World War II, it sounded like a crazy utopia. Now we have the European Union. At this moment, the United States of the World sounds like a crazy utopia, too. But there is no escape from some kind of world governance. The global economy needs it to function. Global communications make it possible. Global spying is already with us. Only an effective global authority can save our suffering planet, put an end to wars and civil wars, worldwide epidemics and hunger. Can world governance be democratic? I certainly hope so. World communications make it possible. Your descendents will vote for a world parliament. Will the nation-state continue to exist in this brave new world? Yes, it will. Much as nation-states do exist in todays Europe: Each with its flag, its anthem, its soccer team and its local administration. This is my optimistic vision: Israel, the nation-state of the Israeli people, closely aligned with the nation-state of the Palestinian people, will be a member of a regional Union that will include the Arab states and hopefully Turkey and Iran, as a proud member of the United States of the World. A democratic, liberal and secular state where your descendents will be proud to proclaim: I am an Israeli! Uri Avnery is an Israeli writer and former member of Knesset.
Not just Israel, i think that the whole world will not exist after 90 years! the nuclear war is coming soon! Russia has enough nukes to destroy the whole galaxy! not just earth !
Sooner or later it's going to happen. I'd like to have a shot at the ideologues and religionists before it happens though.
In my time,despite terrible wars and such things have always been heading in the right direction. Israel will still exist in 90 years time. To do so it must stop being so evil, therefore it will, I have every hope, Israel is choc full of really really good people. And one day it may indeed be a light unto nations.
No. It depends totally on the US, and I don't think the power-balance will keep up that long. Everyone honest detests the racist pigs, and longs for them to be overthrown.
So you want to kill your political enemies before the end of the world? I guess that's what makes a liberal a liberal. As to the topic, I think it's better than even odds that Israel, or at least a nation by that name, will not exist in 90 years. Just in my lifetime I've seen the bounce back of world wide antisemitism, the crazy kill 'em type, not the not-allowed-in-our-country club type. Israel just has to falter once, and it's done. No bounce back.
That's true, but this was a surprisingly positive article that reflected hope, optimism and even some self-criticism(which is why I can't see this article being supported by those ultra-nationalists called Zionists). If the Israeli people were to take up the kind of attitudes as described in this article, perhaps the state could very well co-exist, it could find a Palestinian solution, it could sign the NPT and the like and it could further join the International Community. The big problem is that a part of the "Jewish Community" is to believe in the phantom "existential threat"(and to a larger extent, racism or their favorite word "Anti-Semitism). To let go of that delusion is to let go of their superiority complex, it simply will not happen in our lifetimes. But the fact that this man has done it, gives me hope. Perhaps they can let it go.
I don't see a world government working. We're far too tribal for that to work. Perhaps a series of large economic conglomerates that are at constant odds. I have no doubt that an Israeli (or at least Jewish) tribe will exist in one of the conglomerates. I certainly hope so. Most of my favorite comedians are Jewish.
It for sure does to Margot! A big case of JDS.. But the Jews will always be persecuted as they have a history of being"rebellious & stiff necked" (per scripture) in regards to being obedient to God over their history, and most importantly they rejected their Messiah. But Margot, I keep telling you that by 2030 life on earth as we no know it will be over and the Millennium will be in effect...but then 'stiff necked ppl' cant see it in the scriptures...
You dont have to beg! The American Jews dont practice blood sacrifice ("W/o the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness of sins") as is commanded (we Christians do via 'Communion), and so there is no forgiveness of sin in their 'modern' version of Judaism...American Jews are but a culture or race...few are orthodox and none celebrate blood sacrifice. - - - Updated - - - Sounds like a lot of 'stiff necks'..you being a great example! ..
I get that! "This is My body--this is My blood." aka the "Lamb of God" sacrificed on a cross... And so how are their sins forgiven?
SIDEBAR: Btw, how old was Jesus when He died & resurrected? Conventional teachings are 33 1/2 YO....ordained at 30 yo as was the custom of priests, and 3 1/2 yrs recorded in the Gospels. Am reading "Killing Jesus," which has Him dying at 36 yo and around 30 AD. I'm assuming that Jesus was born during Herod the Great's rule and Herod had all the baby boys under 2 yo killed (per the Maji's 1st sighting of His star), and Herod is recorded as dying in 4 BC, so 2(YO) + 4(BC) + 30 (AD) = 36 yo (?)
No they are quite Jewish.. and they are very well educated and successful.. They just don't support Israel.
You said they celebrate 'Christ,' which is a Greek (Gentile) word for Jesus the Jewish Messiah, but are NOT Christian Jews....doesnt wash! Btw, 'educated and successful' mean nothing with regards to spiritual understanding.....there are many educated fools out there!
