You can't live without religion.

No.
I am saying you are WRONG, since Josephus was alive at the same time as both John and apparently, James, too, whom the letter was addressed too.

Admit you are wrong, that no historical evidence supports Jesus, and be honest.

 

Had they read Rev 2.22 they would have known what was coming AFTER the 1000 year RCC had ended in 1054AD.

And this "Jezebel" returned to the new Roman Catholic Church of Thiatira:

Rev. 2:20 Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, (Church of Rome), because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, (tolerating a homosexually deviant sect), which calleth herself a prophetess, (proclaiming insight into doctrines of celibacy), to teach and to seduce my servants, (particularly the altar boys), to commit fornication, (to engage in pedophilia and sodomizes), and to eat "things" sacrificed unto (phallic) idols.

 

NOPE! Can't blame the Jezebels this time Dave it was ALL MEN RAPING CHILDREN...MEN.......RELIGIOUS MEN....

 

?
Read my posts again.

I said Josephus was alive in the Age of Jesus, because in 92 AD he and John, BOTH, were alive.

I said Josephus SAID Jesus was supposedly the messiah, too.
Josephus was the Jewish historian of that Age, too.

 

Yes,... that Church was condemned as dead.

The Protestant movement "killed" its universality, and the good people still going here are OK.
But the Pope and his aristocracy is lost.


Rev. 2:21-23 And I gave her, (this sect within the Universal Catholic Church) space (of 400 years) to repent of her (pedaphilia), fornication; and she repented not.
Behold, I will cast her, (this sect within the Universal Catholic Church), into a bed (of financial litigations), and them that commit adultery with her, (the organized church heirarchy), into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.
And I will kill her children with death (by Black Plague, and AIDS, and both civil and criminal prosecutions); and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins (of behavior) and hearts (of their mind): and I will give unto every one of you (who replace this fallen institution) according to your (new congregation's) works.

 

Who condemned the Catholic Church as dead? You?

 

Even if he was alive at the same time as them, if he never communicated with them, why does it matter?

Josephus is at best a third hand, non-contemporary source of information about Jesus.

 

The John who wrote Revelation was not the Apostle John.

Furthermore, what is your evidence that Josephus was alive before Jesus was crucified?

 

I'm sure some of the gospel authors were also alive when Josephus was alive, but again, that proves nothing.

Josephus was not born until years after Jesus died, but that, too is not the point.

If you want to show that Josephus quoted a NON-RELIGIOUS text that served as a CONTEMPORARY historical record during Jesus' lifetime - please, do so. So far, you're batting zero because you can't show that any historian during Jesus lifetime ever recorded independent events. We have records from historians that recorded many of Herod's moves and recorded events concerning the Pharisees and Sadducees, as well as other prominent leaders in that area of the world at that time.

What we DON'T have is any record that Jesus existed OUTSIDE of the scriptural texts.

I'm not sure you're even following my point.

 

I've heard it said by scholars and historians that this is most likely due to the fact that self-styled wandering gurus (as per jesus) were a dime a dozen at the time, and that nothing this particular character did was sufficiently different or unusual to warrant mention. That's embarrassing

 

Alrighty. I believe our conversation is over. All of your points were made clear to me after you said that. Thanks.

 

No.
Jesus said this would happen:



Rev 3:1 And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead.

 

WHAT...???

YOU said Josephus was not living concurrent to what happened in 32AD.
I said he WAS.

 

My evidence that the Jews were all alive in 32AD.
And THEY, in their Talmud, say stuff about him and his mother.
These Jews are witnesses to The Christ whether they accepted him or not.

 

OH,...
Now you don't want an independent HISTORIAN of that time as evidence any more???

 

Okay, thank you for being a gracious debater. My intent was only to address yguy's theory, not to attack anyone's faith. As I mentioned to him a few posts back, you are the more honest debater. I accept that faith is the belief in "things unseen" and you do not need historical proof to back that up. You have made some excellent points and I appreciate your ideas and conversation. This thread took a turn I did not intend and I apologize for coming off as brusque and unfeeling. I greatly respect and appreciate the contributions made by today's Christians to our society. There are many good things those of your faith have accomplished in this world. We shall most likely cross paths again and I will remember your integrity. Peace.

 

Jesus' death is set at about 4 AD. Josephus was born in 37 AD and he didn't write his treatise until much later. I'm not sure what point you're trying to make but I just did this debate and I'm not interested in redoing it.

 

I was referring to his phrasing of the question, which was the post I quoted. Your post seems to be your thoughts on (and a request for my thoughts on) something completely different.

 

Where exactly does the Talmud talk about Jesus?

- - - Updated - - -

Josephus is not a contemporary source. Period.

 

Josephus was a Historian.

 

The Talmud today has been edited so as to remove the direct names which until the 17th century specifically called Jesus and Mary as the people who promoted Christianity.
Their "testimony," there, had become very dangerous in a Christian Europe which they began openly living inside, as they expanded their lives outside of the ghettoes.

Rev. 11:7 And when they, (the two candlesticks, i.e.; the House of Jacob and the House of Judah), shall have finished their testimony (in the 17th century, against their own messiah ben Joseph, and changed their written texts in the Talmud so as to remove the name of Jesus and their direct protests against him), the (seven headed) beast (of Western civilization) that (had) ascendeth out of the bottomless pit (in The Renaissance) shall make (secular) war against them, (these Jews of the diaspora), and shall overcome them (in 1942), and kill them (with gas and starvation and brutalities).

 

Yes, but the Book of Matthew and the rise of the Christians thereafter began during Josephus' early life and he reported on what he knew happened, as do all Historians, after the events take place.

 

So you have no evidence for Jesus being mentioned in the Talmud only a conspiracy theory without evidence that he was removed?

 

You are of course aware that your view is purely materialistic. But that view, IMHO, is wrong. I think the fact of the matter is Consciousness is fundamental, the mind is not in the brain, the brain is a transceiver, and Consciousness, the fundamental is Intelligence. This Intelligence can be also received by the transceiver, which is not the intelligence associated with thinking, which IS a material process in the processing physical brain. There is intelligence we associate with thinking, the storage of experience in memory, passed on to the new generations, but there is another intelligence not of the physical brain, and that Intelligence is what has allowed man to be where he is. This is where the NEW originates from, as well as another dimension of intelligence.

I prefer this view, this assumption. More interesting.

 

Is there a link or something that explains josephus?