I m sure most of you are more knowledgeable about Zionism than I. I've read abt Herzl - Weizmann- Ben Grunn etc., but not about Nathan Birnbaum - I cam across this interesting article abt him The inventor of Zionism. In 1890, Birnbaum coined the terms “Zionist” and “Zionism,” and, in 1892, “Political Zionism.” In 1893, he published a brochure entitled Die Nationale Wiedergeburt des Juedischen Volkes in seinem Lande als Mittel zur Loesung der Judenfrage (“The National Rebirth of the Jewish People in its Homeland as a Means of Solving the Jewish Question”, in which he expounded ideas similar to those that Herzl was to promote subsequently. ---- He left the Zionists in 1899, became a devout Orthodox Jew and was necessarily implacably opposed to the Zionist heresy. He was for a time a member of the anti-Zionist Agudas Yisrael (“The Union of Israel”, the Orthodox Jewish organization founded in 1912 in opposition to Zionism but one wing of which unfortunately succumbed, joined the Zionists and is now an Israeli political party. Nathan Birnbaum, decrying political Zionism, 1919: “And is it at all possible that we, who regard Judaism as our one and only treasure, should ever be able to compete with such expert demagogues and loud self-advertisers as they [the Zionists]? It is surely not necessary that we should. We are, after all, still the mountains and they the grain, and all we need to do is to gather all our forces in a world organization of religious Jews, and it will follow of itself, and without the application of any great political cunning on our part, that we shall have it in our power to prevent what must needs be prevented and to carry out what we have to carry out. But there is no need first to create this world organization of religious Jews. It is already in existence. The world knows its name, it is Agudas Yisroel [The Union of Israel].” ( Nathan Birnbaum, “In bondage to our fellow Jews”, 1919 from Nathan Birnbaum, "Series of Essays on Agudas Yisroel", London, 1944 reproduced in Michael Selzer, editor, “Zionism Reconsidered”, Macmillan, London, 1970. He later became a leading spokesman for Jewish cultural autonomy in the Diaspora. He stressed the Yiddish language as the basis of Ashkenazi Jewish culture and was chief convenor of the Conference on Yiddish held in Czernowitz, Bukovina, in 1908. This was attended by leading Yiddish writers, and proclaimed Yiddish as a national Jewish language. Birnbaum propagated his ideas in writing and by lecturing in many Jewish communities. ==== Interesting character.
Zionism wouldn't have been neccessary if Gentiles weren't soo full of hate and jealousy towards their Jewish neighbors.
Well imo - the past is not as simple as that. its far more complex . However , why should Palestinians be made to pay for whatever happened in Europe ? .....
Prior to World War II the majority of Jews were non-Zionist, and a large number were openly hostile to Zionism. As Nahum Goldmann wrote, "When Zionism first appeared on the world scene most Jews opposed it and scoffed at it. Herzl was only supported by a small minority." It was not until the full horror of the Holocaust was realized that the great bulk of the Jewish community came to support Zionism. ----- Looks like Zionists profited a great deal from the Holocaust. Israel Zangwill, one of Herzl's earliest and strongest supporters, eventually turned against the idea of establishing a Jewish state in Palestine. Ironically it was Zangwill who coined the phrase "a land without a people for a people without a land." It was this phrase that became the potent rallying call for Zionist settlement in Palestine. It was not until 1904 that Zangwill realized that there was a fundamental problem with the Zionist program .In a speech given in New York in that year he explained: There is. . . a difficulty from which the Zionist dares not avert his eyes, though he rarely likes to face it. Palestine proper has already its inhabitants. The pashalik of Jerusalem is already twice as thickly populated as the United States, having 52 souls to every square mile, and not 25 percent of them Jews; so we must be prepared either to drive out by the sword the tribes in possession as our forefathers did, or to grapple with the problem of a large alien population, mostly Mohammedan.. . . This is an infinitely graver difficulty than the stock anti-Zionist taunt that nobody would go to Palestine if we got it. . . .15 Zangwill and many other leading Zionists split from the movement in 1905 when the Zionist Organization turned down the British offer to settle Jews in Uganda. Incidently, this proposal was supported by Herzl. The dissidents set up the Jewish Territorial Organization to pursue alternative settlement proposals. Zangwill was elected leader of the new body. The organization was, however, dissolved in 1925. --- Sir Edwin Montagu, the only Jewish member of Lloyd George's cabinet when Great Britain first threw its weight behind Zionism in 1917, was also adamantly opposed to the creation of a Jewish state. He attacked the Balfour Declaration and Zionism because he believed they were anti-Semitic. Montagu based his argument on the fact that both Zionism and anti-Semitism were based on the premise that Jews and non-Jews could not co-exist. He was also afraid that a Jewish state would undermine the security of Jews in other countries. Montagu's opposition to Zionism was supported by the leading representative bodies of Anglo-Jewry, the Board of Deputies and the Anglo-Jewish Association, and in particular, by Claude Montefiore, David Alexander and Lucien Wolf. === .......
Is that so ? Well according to David J Wasserstein is the Eugene Greener Jr Professor of Jewish Studies at Vanderbilt University. Islam saved Jewry. This is an unpopular, discomforting claim in the modern world. But it is a historical truth. He says Had Islam not come along, Jewry in the west would have declined to disappearance and Jewry in the east would have become just another oriental cult remove yr blinkers Read Jewish Chronical http://www.thejc.com/comment-and-deb...uslims-do-jews also http://www.politicalforum.com/showthread.php?t=326784 ,,,,,
Massacres of Jews by Muslims http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1066_Granada_massacre In 1465, Arab mobs in Fez slaughtered thousands of Jews, leaving only 11 alive, after a Jewish deputy vizier treated a Muslim woman in an offensive manner. The killings touched off a wave of similar massacres throughout Morocco Confined to city quarters, the Bukharan Jews were denied basic rights and many were forced to convert to Islam. They had to wear black and yellow dress to distinguish themselves from the Muslims.[38] Under the Zaydi rule, the Yemenite Jews were considered to be impure, and therefore forbidden to touch a Muslim or a Muslim's food. They were obligated to humble themselves before a Muslim, to walk to the left side, and greet him first. They could not build houses higher than a Muslim's or ride a camel or horse, and when riding on a mule or a donkey, they had to sit sideways. Upon entering the Muslim quarter a Jew had to take off his foot-gear and walk barefoot. If attacked with stones or fists by Islamic youth, a Jew was not allowed to defend himself. In such situations he had the option of fleeing or seeking intervention by a merciful Muslim passerby.[39] In 1656, all Jews were expelled from Isfahan because of the common belief of their impurity and forced to convert to Islam. However, as it became known that the converts continued to practice Judaism in secret and because the treasury suffered from the loss of jizya collected from the Jews, in 1661 they were allowed to revert to Judaism, but were still required to wear a distinctive patch on their clothing In 1834, in Safed local Muslim Arabs carried out a massacre of the indigenous (Old Yishuv) Jewish population of that city in the Safed Plunder.[citation needed] In 1839, in the eastern Persian city of Meshed, a mob burst into the Jewish Quarter, burned the synagogue, and destroyed the Torah scrolls. It was only by forcible conversion that a massacre was averted.[40] There was another massacre in Barfurush in 1867.[41][42] In 1839, the Allahdad incident, the Jews of Mashhad, Iran, now known as the Mashhadi Jews, were coerced into converting to Islam In the middle of the 19th century, J. J. Benjamin wrote about the life of Persian Jews: "…they are obliged to live in a separate part of town…; for they are considered as unclean creatures… Under the pretext of their being unclean, they are treated with the greatest severity and should they enter a street, inhabited by Mussulmans, they are pelted by the boys and mobs with stones and dirt… For the same reason, they are prohibited to go out when it rains; for it is said the rain would wash dirt off them, which would sully the feet of the Mussulmans… If a Jew is recognized as such in the streets, he is subjected to the greatest insults. The passers-by spit in his face, and sometimes beat him… unmercifully… If a Jew enters a shop for anything, he is forbidden to inspect the goods… Should his hand incautiously touch the goods, he must take them at any price the seller chooses to ask for them... Sometimes the Persians intrude into the dwellings of the Jews and take possession of whatever please them. Should the owner make the least opposition in defense of his property, he incurs the danger of atoning for it with his life... If... a Jew shows himself in the street during the three days of the Katel (Muharram)…, he is sure to be murdered In 1840, the Jews of Damascus were falsely accused of having murdered a Christian monk and his Muslim servant and of having used their blood to bake Passover bread.[45] A Jewish barber was tortured until he "confessed"; two other Jews who were arrested died under torture, while a third converted to Islam to save his life. Throughout the 1860s, the Jews of Libya were subjected to what Gilbert calls punitive taxation. In 1864, around 500 Jews were killed in Marrakech and Fez in Morocco. In 1869, 18 Jews were killed in Tunis, and an Arab mob looted Jewish homes and stores, and burned synagogues, on Jerba Island. In 1875, 20 Jews were killed by a mob in Demnat, Morocco; elsewhere in Morocco, Jews were attacked and killed in the streets in broad daylight. In 1897, synagogues were ransacked and Jews were murdered in Tripolitania An account by Solomon Cohen dated January 1148 AD describes the Almohad conquests: "Abd al-Mumin ... the leader of the Almohads after the death of Muhammad Ibn Tumart the Mahdi ... captured Tlemcen [in the Maghreb] and killed all those who were in it, including the Jews, except those who embraced Islam. ... [In Sijilmasa] One hundred and fifty persons were killed for clinging to their [Jewish] faith. ... One hundred thousand persons were killed in Fez on that occasion, and 120,000 in Marrakesh. The Jews in all [Maghreb] localities [conquered] ... groaned under the heavy yoke of the Almohads; many had been killed, many others converted; none were able to appear in public as Jews http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_Morocco Thus, for example, the sultan Sulaiman (1795–1822) decreed that the Jews of Fez might wear shoes; but so many Jews were killed in the streets of that city as a result of the edict that they themselves asked the sultan to repeal it. According to a statistical report of the Alliance Israélite Universelle, for the years 1864–80 no less than 307 Jews were murdered in the city and district of Morocco, which crimes, although brought to the attention of the magistracy upon every occasion, remained unpunished.[44] In 1912, thousands of rebelling Moroccan soldiers entered and pillaged the Mellah (Jewish quarter) of Fez. More than 50 Jews were killed and hundreds of homes and shops were destroyed or damaged. The events were known as the "Tritel" Like the Arabs, the Jews were zealous promoters of knowledge, and by translating Greek and Latin authors, mainly at the House of Wisdom in Bagdad, contributed essentially to their preservation. They took up religio-philosophical studies (the "kalam"), siding generally with the Mutazilites and maintaining the freedom of the human will ("chadr"). The government meanwhile accomplished all it could toward the complete humiliation of the Jews. All non-believers — Magi, Jews, and Christians — were compelled by Al-Mutawakkil to wear a badge; their places of worship were confiscated and turned into mosques; they were excluded from public offices, and compelled to pay to the caliph a tax of one-tenth of the value of their houses. The caliph Al-Mu'tadhel (892-902) ranked the Jews as "state servants." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_Iraq#Sassanid_period
Mod Edit ~ Focus on the topic. Stop the baiting. ========================= Allowing for the usual gross exaggerations - worth noting that the references (most sources) can hardly be accepted as impartial , now can it "References Bard, Mitchell (2013). "The Jews of Iraq". Jewish Virtual Library. Retrieved September 10, 2013. Gale, Naomi (2005). The Sephardim of Sydney: Coping with Political Processes and Social Pressures (2005 ed.). Sussex Academic Press. ISBN 9781845190354. - Total pages: 188 Kalpakian, Jack (2004). Identity, Conflict and Cooperation in International River Systems (2004 ed.). Ashgate Publishing. ISBN 9780754633389. - Total pages: 213 Levin, Itamar (2001). Locked Doors: The Seizure of Jewish Property in Arab Countries (2001 ed.). Greenwood Publishing Group. ISBN 9780275971342. - Total pages: 265 Murphy, Verity (July 29, 2003). "Iraq Jews' spiritual move to Israel". BBC News. Retrieved September 10, 2013. Rejwan, Nissim; Beinin, Joel (2010). The Last Jews in Baghdad: Remembering a Lost Homeland (2010 ed.). University of Texas Press. ISBN 9780292774421. - Total pages: 242 Simon, Reeva S.; Laskier, Michael Menachem; Reguer, Sara (2013). The Jews of the Middle East and North Africa in Modern Times (2013 ed.). Columbia University Press. ISBN 9780231507592. - Total pages: ====================== BTW - THE TOPIC IS ZIONISM not Jewish sufferings . - O.K. ? "
In order for your propaganda to work you need to define israel as something that occurred due to events in Europe and not events in the Mid East.. Jews were owed a piece of land after Britain was so generous with the Arabs. Can you imagine what decent people all over the world would say if the Jews did not have any land of their own in the land of the forefathers. I have friend who are Canadian born fourth generation Arab family now moving to Dubai are you going to slam them and say all of dubai is there due to Canadians. it's propaganda marlowe you need to fee yourself from this check out the internet and watch the free people enjoy their lives without this hatred someone planted in you as a little girl
Huh ? "MY" propaganda ? I've posted some fact. WTF - are you talking about ? meanwhile go look up the meaning of "propaganda"
the hatred taught to you some where down the line is that ruins' eh. i want to help.. this abject hatred of the Jewish people portrayed here with your absolute disdain for a homeland for the Jewish people is tantamount o your every post. Zionism is nothing other than patriotism. You use the word with disdain instead of being supportive. try to see that something was done to you to cause all this hatred and animosity towards a people. every thread here every post contains some form of hatred towards a beautiful people who deserve an even larger portion of land in proportion the what the Arab people received legally… it's your words the Arabs done't deserve a land this is their land they lived here forever(misquote but you get the drift, you said something like that to me) your words about the Arabs were not given anything it is their land.. But the laws that protect them and grant them these boundaries and all legal rights within those borders were granted to them…they bought the package. so too the Jewish people deserve a piece of land that their original forefathers lived on. Jerusalem was jewish under the Romans and before the Romans..the romans ruled Judea. it's all ancient history and you must afford yourself this absolute denial of the hatred put into you as a little girl.. your all grown up now and are twisting your educated mind to help in the propaganda…you are being used. run from it...
DRECK - BS Frankly - I'd rather accept the description/explanation of Zionism by more learned Rabbis at "True Torah Jews " than someone calling himself Doc Dred, on a forum. tata ...
Jews also helped drive out the Turks. Thousands of them in their own unit of the British army and tens of thousands more in regular British army units.
What unit was this? The Jewish brigade was formed closer to WW2. Moreover, the arabs revolted against the Turks sometime before even WW1 and did so outwith British arms and support. Thus again, not even counting their greater numbers and contribution to the area - their claim is the greater.
The Jewish Legion. also, Zionist leader Chaim Weizmann contributed greatly to the British war effort with his scientific discoveries and research.
Interesting and well pointed out. Though of course the Arabs revolted prior to all this, and without British assistance, and in greater number, and with poorer weapons initially. And Weizmann had never even been to Jerusalem, in the land he wished to claim, until 1907.
You mean The Zion Mule Corps The British opposed the participation of Jewish volunteers on the Palestinian front and they were put to serve as a detachment for mule transport on another sector of the Ottoman front. Trumpeldor recruited volunteers from among the Jews in Egypt who had been deported there by the Ottomans in the previous year. formed the 650-strong Zion Mule Corps, of whom 562 were sent to the Gallipoli front. Later renamed as Jewish Legion. they played no part in British Army in PALESTINE. ......
WRONG AGAIN!!! In June 1918, the volunteers of the 38th Battalion began engaging the Ottomans some twenty miles north of Jerusalem. In the fighting in the Jordan Valley, more than twenty Legionnaires were killed, wounded, or captured, the rest came down with malaria, and thirty of this group later died. The Legion then came under the command of Major-General Edward Chaytor,[3] who commanded the ANZAC Mounted Division. Besides various skirmishes, the Legion also participated in the Battle of Megiddo in mid-September, 1918, widely considered to have been one of the final and decisive victories of the Ottoman front. The Legion's mission was to cross the Jordan River. Jabotinsky led the effort. Later, he was decorated and Chaytor told the Jewish troops: "By forcing the Jordan fords, you helped in no small measure to win the great victory gained at Damascus." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_legion#Action_in_the_Jordan_Valley.2C_1918 - - - Updated - - - ah, so you took a poll of all 16 million Jews?????? you're disgusting stereotype that most Jews are supremacists/ethno-centric shows just how bigoted YOU are!!!!
Re; Tricky Chaim Wiezman "Weizmann lectured in chemistry at the University of Geneva between 1901 and 1903, and later taught at the University of Manchester. He became a British subject in 1910, and while a lecturer at Manchester he became famous for discovering how to use bacterial fermentation to produce large quantities of desired substances. He is considered to be the father of industrial fermentation. He used the bacterium Clostridium acetobutylicum (the Weizmann organism) to produce acetone. Acetone was used in the manufacture of cordite explosive propellants critical to the Allied war effort (see Royal Navy Cordite Factory, Holton Heath). Weizmann transferred the rights to the manufacture of acetone to the Commercial Solvents Corporation in exchange for royalties. First Lord of the Admiralty Winston Churchill became aware of the possible use of Weizmann's discovery in early 1915, and Minister of Munitions David Lloyd George joined Churchill in encouraging Weizmann's development of the process. Pilot plant development of laboratory procedures was completed in 1915 at the J&W Nicholson & Co gin factory in Bow, London, so industrial scale production of acetone could begin in six British distilleries requisitioned for the purpose in early 1916. The effort produced 30,000 tonnes of acetone during the war, although a national collection of horse-chestnuts was required when supplies of maize were inadequate for the quantity of starch needed for fermentation. The importance of Weizmann's work gave Him favour in the eyes of the British Government, this allowed Weizmann to have access to senior Cabinet members and utilise this time to represent Zionist aspirations Foreign Secretary Arthur Balfour at this time issued the Balfour Declaration of 1917 in support of Weizmann's Zionist objectives as Weizmann ascended to the presidency of the British Zionist Federation. ==== Here is Weizman posing as an Arab : LOL
Wiki is only as good as the references edited by Zionists Hasbarists : References 1.^ Jump up to: a b c d e Joseph B. Schechtman (1956). "Rebel and Statesman, The Vladimir Jabotinsky Story, The Early Years. New York: Thomas Yoseloff. pp. 203207. 2.Jump up ^ The Struggle for the Jewish Legion and The Birth of the IDF; By Jerry Klinger 3.Jump up ^ Bio of E.W.C. Chaytor (firstworldwar.com) 4.Jump up ^ Approximate numbers, according to Commonwealth War Graves Commission 5.Jump up ^ S/Sgt Maurice Spero died 27-8-1944 6.Jump up ^ "Mer, Professor Gideon". Israel War Veterans League. Archived from the original on 2007-12-25. Retrieved 2008-03- === IMO - best taken with a pinch of salt.
To some yes but to others no as they then have to precede it with 'neo' in order to gain the effect they need. All this is interchangeable with the word "Jew" in order to realize the full scope of the insult or hatred they wish to project.
