While We Were Still Enemies, Jesus Died for Us

The story is that Jesus took responsibility. Free choice.

Now, explain why God left it up to Jesus.

 

Actually I didn’t write that. The article author did and he wasn’t talking about any human being killing anyone at all.

 

That was the plan they developed before the creation of the world. The plan is to bring humans into the circle of love that forever exists between The Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. Each member of the Trinity took on a role in the Great Task.

At the Last Supper Jesus prayed to His Father for all of us “that they may all be one. As you, Father, are in me and I am in you, may they also be in us”

 

. ~ Democrats say they will do exactly the same thing ... !

 

Yeah, but I don't believe them. They seem pretty damn unfriendly to Free Thinkers these days, and those that refuse to kneel, and I number with both those groups.

 

Your evidence for all of this is what?

I have one for you.

Exodus 20:16

 

"Unfriendly " ?

"Unfriendly" is creating a world where humans are programmed to sin and then be punished for it....

"unfriendly" is creating a system where INNOCENT children are born with birth defects and get cancer.


"Unfriendly" is creating a world that is hostile to humans and then watching them suffer and die...

"Unfriendly" is punishing those who REFUSE TO KNEEL to a vain god...

 

So god created humans with free will so that they could freely choose to give up their free will to become “one” with a Trinity that they don’t actually understand and if they don’t choose to “become one” then they will be roasted like everlasting marshmallows. That totally makes sense.

S’mores anyone?

 

I have no problem with Mr. Brown's advice, but I've never subscribed to the belief/notion that we were ever enemies with God (or vice versa) and Jesus for that matter.

If you believe that God and Jesus offered us such a sacrifice it clearly would have been out of love, not hate or anger or spite.

And if you strip away all the religious and supernatural aspects from Jesus the case would remain the same. His mission was one of liberation.

 

so killing Jesus was part of God's pan

 

Can God's be killed, or can they only pretend to be killed?

Not much of a sacrifice if it's pretend and all pre-planned

 

That's not a question that concerns me and the point I made in my post about the relationships between human beings, God and Jesus.

That aside, the answer would depend on one's conception of God and/or Jesus, wouldn't it?

"Not much of a sacrifice" if one conveniently overlooks and dismisses the suffering associated with execution via crucifixion:

 

Apologists would just point to omniscience here. Free will does not imply that an all-knowing being won't correctly predict actions.

That said, there's a more fundamental problem, and that is the moral bankruptcy and illogical nature of creating beings that are sinners, and then sacrificing your son/self to yourself to change your own rules. Then suddenly, people who did bad things, small and large, are all in the same bucket of undeserved bliss or undeserved torture based only upon them believing in that sacrifice. I cannot imagine a more stupid system, that infinitely rewards or punishes people for their ability to believe something stupid that strokes a narcissistic god ego without evidence. Most likely, something as powerful as a god would know better, and so Christianity is simply bullshit.

 

can God's suffer such, or only pretend too?

 

Can people who routinely express their hostility towards all things Christian dismiss Jesus' sacrifice and suffering?

 

just a logical question, don't get offended, I think many know the answer to those questions though, and that is what upsets them, they don't want to think about it

 

Just another straw man, actually.

As for my own logical question, it was rhetorical of course. People who routinely express their hostility towards all things Christian routinely dismiss Jesus' sacrifice and suffering.

 

by the loving Jealous God of the Bible?

sounds more like a Jealous ex-boyfriend that throws his ex in the basement and punishes her and blames her for what he is doing to her, if she had only loved him unconditionally

but then, what would we expect from a God that goes by the name "Jealous"

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Exodus+34:14&version=KJV
"
Exodus 34:14 King James Version (KJV)
14 For thou shalt worship no other god: for the Lord, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God:
"

 

Jesus was a straw man?

non-believers do not believe what you believe, just the reality of it - not even all that believe in Jesus believe what you believe

this is a political board, not a Christian echo chamber, being hostile to non-Christians, gonna get some push back here

 

In short, it makes no sense.

 

It doesn't. It didn't when I was 5 years old (and no, I didn't believe in santa claus either). But I'm not sure why they don't see it. Indoctrination, I guess.

 

And what do I supposedly believe in your mind, hmm?

Had you taken the time to read and comprehend what I actually posted in #134 instead of expressing your hostility towards all things Christian you might have a clue what I actually believe.

I knew this was a political board long before you arrived here, and this isn't an anti-Christian echo chamber. Being hostile to Christians is gonna get some pushback from Christians and non-Christians here.

 

had you taken the time to read rather than expressing your hostility to non-Chistians, maybe you would see

sorry if someone asking questions you don't like upsets you

most Christians, Muslims, Mormons and Jews are good people, just trying to live their lives, it's only the fanatics that want to force their beliefs on others I have issue with

then you know we debate here, one says I am going to hell, I am gonna ask them questions about that, questions that may just make them think about their beliefs in a way they don't like

 

I see you running from your bullshit being called out.

Again, what do I supposedly believe in your mind?

 

I remember sitting is a church basement with other kids, being led in singing, "Jesus loves me..." when I remember thinking how none of it made any sense. My guess is I was about 9. It never really made sense--I guess I wasn't old enough until then to conclude for myself it as absurd.