ICC issues arrest warrant for Putin and Russian official tied to alleged deportation of Ukrainian ch

I do not see the oschonkans ever doing the right thing. You know behave like humans and not NAZIS.

 

The civilized part of the world first needs to be able to enforce the act of p,uting Putin on trial for war crimes. That takes cooperation with decent hum@n being but we are dealing with Russians. Germany and it’s merry gang of NAZIS is a different situation since Germany was defeated and dismembered. The only way to make it work so that Putin is charged with war crimes is to destroy and dismember that evil empire- Russia.

 

The ICC has done the right thing.

 

I had thought I'd heard, years ago, that the International Criminal Court had charged Bush with war crimes. Interestingly, though, when I try to Google this, I can only find a story about a tribunal in Malaysia, which convicted numerous members of the G.W. Bush Administration, in absentia, of war crimes. The article, below, says that all this court's transcripts were forwarded to the ICC, but I see no articles on any resolution of this story, at the Hague, at least not without deep digging into the search engine's hits.

<Snip>
"I think things that they authorized probably fall within the area of war crimes. Whether that would be productive or not, I think, is a discussion we could all have. But we have established procedures now with the International Criminal Court in The Hague, where people who take actions as serving presidents or prime ministers of countries have been indicted and have been tried. So the precedent is there to do that sort of thing. And I think we need to ask ourselves whether or not it would be useful to do that in the case of members of the Bush administration. It's clear that things that the Bush administration did — in my mind, at least, it's clear that some of the things they did were war crimes."

And, something that most of us missed, there was a court on the other side of the world that agreed.

In what is the first ever conviction of its kind anywhere in the world, the former US President and seven key members of his administration were... found guilty of war crimes. Bush, Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld and their legal advisers Alberto Gonzales, David Addington, William Haynes, Jay Bybee and John Yoo were tried in absentia in Malaysia...At the end of the week-long hearing, the five-panel tribunal unanimously delivered guilty verdicts against Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld and their key legal advisors who were all convicted as war criminals for torture and cruel, inhumane and degrading treatment. Full transcripts of the charges, witness statements and other relevant material will now be sent to the Chief Prosecutor of the International Criminal Court, as well as the United Nations and the Security Council.

At the very least, this court parceled out the blame for the torture program in a fair manner and all the way up the chain of command.
<End Snip>

https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/politics/news/a35397/bush-cheney-war-crimes/

 

What makes you think, Putin would ever "retire?"

 

Yes, and . . . ?

 

I couldn't find anything either except the UN Chief stating that Bush SHOULD be up for war crimes.

 

PBS News Hour, called Putin the first leader of a major country, ever indicted, by the ICC. So I guess the Court didn't ever pull the trigger, on those rumblings. Therefore, George Bush need not fear leaving his Texas painting studio, if he'd like to go to Europe. He'll just have to be careful not to combine that with a visit to Australia-- as that would mean flying through territory, in which he is a wanted man.

 

1) I'd thought some would not be aware of this, and would find it interesting. I still do think this, in fact. If you are not one of those people, I will turn around your questioning of my post-- so what? Does your own post, have some point?

2) There was a second idea I was floating, but don't see why you would be interested in it, or have a very impartial opinion, regarding it, if you seem to think that my mentioning the conviction of our former President, by an international tribunal, is something not even worth noting.

Nonetheless, that second idea had been that some sort of national bias, was possibly playing a part, in determining that any Google results, about the ICC and Bush, even though that was what I'd searched, would not be among the top sites listed.

 

The warrant will never be executed unless there's a coup and he's deposed in which case his replacement might find it a convenient to hand him over as part of a policy designed to start resetting diplomatic relations with the west. More likely though he'd simply die in a 'tragic accident'. It does have some interesting long term political consequences for Putin though given he's likely to be around for some time yet.

Firstly it means in Putin can theoretically never leave Russia to attend international conferences or appear on a stage with other world leaders ever again. At least without in principal facing the risk of being arrested in any country that recognizes the Courts jurisdiction (all 123? of them). And that's even after the war ends and a peace treaty is sighed. Think the G20, the UN, - ALL of them! Yes, there will always be counties like China (and the US) who don't recognize the courts authority and there may even be circumstances where Putin receives diplomatic assurances prior to traveling that the warrant won't be executed if he leaves Russia to attend an important conference. But the thing is, wherever he goes outside of Russia the arrest warrant will be a political noose around his neck, he will never be able to travel outside of Russia again without constantly being hounded about it. Secondly no Western Political figure is going to want to appear in public standing next to a person wanted for war crimes, let alone be photographed shaking his hand!

The other issue is of course that the warrant automatically becomes a useful political bargaining chip in any diplomatic negotiations over ending the war and the rebuilding of Ukraine afterwards. The frozen foreign reserves, the trade sanctions, this warrant etc are all potential bargaining chips that can be used to force Putin's hand. Not officially of course because after all the ICC operates completely independently of member State politics! Never-the-less it might 'independently' decide to drop the case against Putin personally for legal reasons - as opposed to all the other wanted Russian war crime suspects. Hell who knows? Perhaps those other suspects might suddenly even start being extradited from Russia to face trial! For totally unrelated reasons of course.

 

Any legal body derives its standing from its ability to enforce the laws under its care.

Here the Chinese phrase 'paper tiger' comes to mind.

Regards, stay safe 'n well.

 

Absolutely!!!...... and regardless of how far it gets.....or how longit it takes....... it reinforces & accentuates Putins'
PARIAH status.......and increased isolation.

Will be curious to see what China does now.......as their leader is planning on visiting Putin next week. China is trying to walk a peculiar tight rope. Who knows.......as China facilitated a new "relationship" between the Saudis and Iran..and is riding a "diplomacy" high ......

Seems this kidnapping of Ukrainian children has been part of Putins objective...........and he has bragged about it......,

By rational standards......the man is a mental lunatic. ;(but then so was Hitler)

 

He is becoming more and more of a liability.........so one can hope that the law actually works here.

 

He's a prisoner in his own house....good, no one wants to be seen with a war criminal.

 

I lost interest in war crimes trials long ago. If people like Kissinger, Mengistu, Putin (pre-Ukraine) and many more have never even been indicted then hoovering up the likes of Omar Bashir & Milosovic doesn't mean much. I no longer care who does & doesn't get charged. So, to me the highlighted is the main value. War crimes charges may provide a bargaining chip. Leverage in negotiations. I can't imagine Putin will ever stand trial, but he might be prepared to make concessions to remove the possibility.

 

It is pretty easy to get discouraged..even cynical with the "law"as in those high profile cases politics is a big player. The legal system.....regardless on what level.......should (in an ideal world) be a separate and objective entity. (not to be "influenced" by power, money.......or human factor) The world has changed in a massive way since many of those previous criminals.......that were not brought to justice.

Putins own words can and should be used against him. (China is not ding itself a favor by aligning itself too closely with him........and should be smart enough to know that.

 

The ICC is dishonest about Russia's real intentions. Russia actually tried to save orphans in besieged cities like Mariupol, where around 20 children were taken from an orphanage. Otherwise, they could have been killed in a war zone. Russia's children's rights commissioner told Vladimir Putin personally that Russian citizens "have big hearts, and are lining up to take the children." There were at least 43 facilities for Ukrainian orphans in Russian-controlled territory, who were later "placed with Russian foster families or in some form of adoption system."

 

Why did a mental image of a bound and gagged Putinbeing dumped in front of the icc with a note saying “is yours now” come to mind?

 

Putin is "saving" these children??............sure he is....... in order for them to be indoctrinated into the Russian mind set.........and then be used as Putin sees fit. They will owe him their lives now.

Their parents are looking for them......as they were ABDUCTED........for some bizarre political purpose.

This is the opposite of some "humanitarian" deed.......... even though Putin and his ilk will spin it that way.

 

I names three 'previous criminals', all are still alive and can still be charged with their crimes. They won't be. Even if they are, I doubt they will see a court. I am happy enough for people to pursue this stuff and I don't mind people at any level being brought to justice for their crimes. I have simply stopped getting invested in it happening to people at the top.

Very few of them will ever get charged, let alone tried. Some might end up facing rough justice like Gaddaffi & the Ceacescus. Others might end up facing humiliation or even a trial at the end like Pol Pot & some of his henchmen. Most will live out their final years quietly & safely. I will be happy enough if Putin faces trial, but I won't care if he doesn't. Perhaps he will get some other justice, perhaps not.

 

I hear what you are saying..........and if truth be know.....am cynical about anything coming out of this. Now.if all nations were signatories to the ICC.......where all international crimes would be dealt with...........and effectively........the system might work.

 

My post wasn't really about spruiking the positives of the ICC BF. Instead it was more about the manifest negatives for Putin (as a head of State) that result from the ramifications of being charged with war crimes.

Call it the 'Prince Andrew' effect if you want i.e. it doesn't really matter whether Putin stands trial and is convicted or not. Instead it's all about the impact being charged has on the ability of the head of state concerned to actually carry on with their official duties as they did before charges were laid. The ICC warrant is going to be a weight on Putin's shoulders, in effect preventing him from representing Russia on the world stage (and world media) as the leader of a global military/political power almost indefinitely. At least until such time the warrant is dropped anyway. And getting it dropped (if he can) is going to cost him something significant to achieve assuming it's possible to do at all!

And suddenly it 'sucks to be him' even more than it did before!

 

Oh, I get that. Like you, I'm looking at the value of this in ways other than him actually being convicted. I had actually planned to write something about this being a useful bargaining chip, but you got there first (great minds... )

 

When my mind suddenly gets included under the category of 'great' the world is in serious trouble! (Present company excepted of course.)

 

The issuing of the warrant for Putin just before the G20 summit where Putin is expected to attend adds up. The US does not want Putin to have a voice at the summit. Let's see if Putin does attend even knowing he has this warrant on his back.