Can You Believe in God and Evolution?

Nice dodge! Wow! I mean truly well done. Not only did you completely avoid answering the question but you took paragraphs to do so and even managed to throw in a generalized insult to all those disagreing with you! Wel done! You should run for office! YOu would make a great politician with those skills.
So again. Simple question really:

So how do you interpret what is to be taken literally and what, allegorically / symbolically?
What about lots of direct quotes from Jesus, during his preachings on how we should act & treat each other? Would a direct quote from Jesus (when he wasn't telling a parable) be allegorical if you don't like it?

 

Dude, if you're not familiar with "Love Thy enemy" of "Judge not lest ye be judged", you have ZERO business telling people that you possess any knowledge of the Bible at all, let alone how it should be interpreted.

 

In the Torah, Hagar is a daughter of Pharoah..

And yes.. there are Christians here.. They just have more education than you.

 

Of course they can. And they do. If this were not the case there would only be one christian denomination. As it is there are hundreds. I think all that is required to be a christian is to accept Christ as the son of God. The rest is all details, isn't it? And don't the various denominations accept or reject most of the details? Certainly Catholics don't believe the same things that Baptists do yet both are Christions, right? No need to be so rigid.

 

This is way overstated.
The kinds of theists this thread mentions are the types whose idea of God keeps up with known science. Thereby they don't reject anything scientifically proven; they just preserve a pre-existing belief by fitting it into the data available.

I would say that starting from zero, no God beats God in the Occam's Razor test.
But most people do not start from zero.
And belief in God has benefit for some people.

Why must you assume people will "believe anything" just because they believe one supernatural thing?
Every human believes in something that is not empirically proven.

 

And pay note to this scripture:
"Luk 9:1 ¶ Then he called his twelve disciples together, and gave them power and authority over all devils, and to cure diseases.
Luk 9:2 And he sent them to preach the kingdom of God, and to heal the sick.
Luk 9:3 And he said unto them, Take nothing for [your] journey, neither staves, nor scrip, neither bread, neither money; neither have two coats apiece.
Luk 9:4 And whatsoever house ye enter into, there abide, and thence depart.
Luk 9:5 And whosoever will not receive you, when ye go out of that city, shake off the very dust from your feet for a testimony against them. "

No where in that scripture is there an instruction that we (as disciples of Christ) cannot render a judgment against the actions of those who reject us. In fact, there is a note therein that authorizes such judgment against the action of rejecting the Gospel of Christ given by the disciples of Christ. That notation or authorization is " And whosoever will not receive you, when ye go out of that city, shake off the very dust from your feet for a testimony against them."

 

I gave you an example of an allegory. It was plainly stated as an allegory. Wasn't it? Unless there is something there that indicates symbolism is being used, it is to be taken literally. And, as I have said before, just because something is miraculous doesn't mean it is an allegory or symbolic.

So, you should pay attention to whats being said. And remember, no non-Christian is going to be able to discern anything in the Bible. They will just use and twist everything.

Quantrill

 

Dued, Im quite familiar with it. Apparently you are not. You just get some interntet info and use it. You don't really know what your talking about. I like to see some reference to the verses you are using.

And, there are four gospels, and sometimes the same information is given, but a different point being made. Thus, it is important to know since you proabably took everything out of the context anyway.

So, do you have some verses or not?

Quantrill

 

There may well be Christians who are more educated than I. But your neither.

Yes Hagar was a slave woman.

Quantrill

 

No, they cant'. This is why there are such arguments concerning doctrine.

What the Christian believes is taken from the Bible. They cannot just believe anything as was indicated before.

Quantrill

 

If this is meant in earnest, how about a specific reference or question? I posted quite a bit. Is there a specific question?
If not, buzz off!

 

Wow! Truly you have the bullsh1tting skills necessary to run for office! That's twice! Here, let me dumb it down evern more and let's see if you can dodge yet again (I bet you can, you're really good at dodging direct questions!).

If the Bible quotes Jesus directly, can we just discount it as an allegory?

Not when he's telling parables, btw. Like wehre he says "Love thy brother as thyself". You can blow that off if you don't like it ans say "Well that needs to be interpreted my way."

Simple question. Again. If the Bible quotes Jesus directly, can we just discount it as an allegory?

 

Its twice because your not listening. Reread what I said. The allegory was named an allegory. Thus we know it was an allegory. But, the allegory, which was Sarah and Hagar, were still real people and the stories were true and literal.

You might discount something Jesus said as an allegory. It all depends on what your quoting. Same with similes and metaphors. And symbolism.

Everythng Jesus said is to be taken literally but not to the degree you and others are making it. When Jesus said in John 10:7-9 that He was the 'door' of the sheep. It is not taken that He is a 6' X 3' piece of wood with hinges. It is understood that He is the entrance . And the only entrance.

That would be considered a literal interpretation. Normal interpretation.

Quantrill

 

Fine. So when Jesus said "He who does not hate his mother and father cannot take up his cross and follow me." in Luke 14:26, that kinda contradicts the ol' 4th commandment - unless you INTERPRET it to mean something other than hate. And junior, the word is actually "Hate" in the Original KJV, the Latin Vulgate, The Codex Sinaiticus, Alexandricanus, Vaticanus etc....

Jesus is not telling a parable. He did not say "love less". He said hate. Hmmm.
Well you can take the "literally" if you want to but I prefer to take into consideration factors such as Luke was written specifically for Roman Jews and why that's so relevant.

 

Yes, I do believe in a God as well as evolution. I don't think they are contrary to one another.

 

You really should quote the verse correctly if your going to attempt quoting at all.

Luke: 14:26 If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.

Luke 14:27 And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple.

Yes, the word is 'hate'. And the situation Christ describes calls for hate. For Christ had just given the parable of the 'great supper', Luke 14:15-24. It showed that those who had been invited to enter the kingdom of God, were finding all kinds of reasons not to. They were rejecting Christ and the kingdom He offered.

Thus Christ responded with those words, and meant every bit of it. And yes, if my affection for this world whether it be upon my father or mother, stands between me and Christ, I do hate my father and mother.

You will find in Matthew that when Christ was rejected by His own people, Israel, that He then turned away from His own people. Thus the same situatin existed as in Luke 14. And then while Christ was yet speaking to the people his disciples came saying His mother and brothers were there and wanted to speak to Him. Matt.12:46-47

And Jesus said, Matt.12:48-50 " But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren? And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren! For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother. "

There is no conflict with this and the 5th commandment.

Quantrill

 

1st: It's the FOURTH commandment there genius. Second, I don't see a conflict between Matt 14:26 and the 4th Commandment - as long as you INTERPRET MAtthew based on the context, situation etc... Which is exactly what you've now stated must be done.

Now a man of weak character can never admit they're wrong....

 

Not only did you not write it all out, but you misquoted it.

I don't know what you mean by saying 'Christ did not say that'. I have said before that I interpret the Bible literally. That indicates an 'interpretation'. It inicates that you pay attention to the context. You want to pull a verse completely out of its context and force your interpretation so that you can call foul due to what Christ said. Your upset because context gives understanding to whats being said.

Reread the context. Lu.14:18-24 " And they all with one consent began to make excuse. The first said unto him, I have bought a piece of ground, and I must needs go and see it: I pray thee have me excused.

And another said, I have bought five yoke of oxen, and I go to prove them: I pray thee have me excused.

And another said, I have married a wife, and therefore I cannot come.

....the master of the house being angry said to his servant, Go out quickly into the streets and lanes of the city, and bring in hither the poor, and the maimed, and the halt, and the blind.

....For I say unto you, That none of those men which were bidden shall taste of my supper. "

It was then that Christ said in vs. 26, " If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own lilfe also, he cannot be my disciple. "

So, it is pretty clear. Things and people came between some and Christ. Thus, if anything comes between us and Christ, we are to hate it. No matter if it is parents or family.

Again, its called intepretation. No one verse is taken out of its context as you want to do. And the only reason your upset with the explanation is because it burst your little atheist bubble. Now what will you whine about?

I don't see any conflict either with Matt. 14:26 and the 4th commandment, but I don't see what they have to do with anything we are discussing.

Well, what number commandment is keeping the Sabbath?

Quantrill

 

They aren't really numbered, people.

 

So you're saying that you never wrote earlier in this thread that you take the Bible literally?

Well Like I said, it takes character and humility to simply say "I was wrong." Or "I wrote that poorly, what I should have said was..."
And like I predicted, you're are just absolutely right buddy! 100% right. No one interprets the Bible - except when they do but you don't!.... except when you do.... But you're right! 100% on all things at all times!

 

We wrote the bible! Your argument is tautological. Example: Not because it's written in the bible that no one should murder it is not allowed to do so any longer - while it was before the bible was written allowed to do so. It was never allowed to murder as longs as human beings are existing. That's indeed also written in the bible if you think about the story of Cain - but the bible makes only clear that this divine law lost nothing in the new step of civilisation where the first state was founded. Or in an american way: Murder is not a better form of murder if the murderers are a member of the so called "white race" (=Cain) and his victim is not even seen as an American but "only" as a red indian or a black man or ... .

It's by the way very worrying that Texas (and the whole USA) is still murdering people via death penalty. I remember Troy Davis in the moment. And let me say: Death penalty is always wrong - but it is much more than only wrong if the victim of death penalty is even innocent. And it's also an astonishing act of barbarism of Texas to abolish the traditional last meal. I don't see any way how the denying of the christian culture and the denying of the western civilication is able to help the USA only a little.

http://youtu.be/XPd9be8R5bA

 

I well may have said here I take the Bible literally, as opposed to the other interpretations. But it would have been with the explantion that it is literal interpretation that is being talked abouit.

Yeah, Im right. Just like I was right about the 5th commandment. I don't see any character coming out of you. And you were wrong. Where is this so called humility your looking for? Genius. Yeah, its a good time to get boared.

Quantrill

 

God wrote the Bible. The Bible is the Word of God.

Im not sure what your getting at. The death penalty was established by God in Genesis 9. It has never been removed. It was before the Mosaic law, so when the Mosaic law was done away with, the death penalty still remained.

To exercise the death penalty is to be obedient to God.

Quantrill

 

God wrote everything what we can see - but not everythingh is written in the bible. You are selecting what you like to know and what you don't like to know - what you like to accept and what you don't like to accept - no one else. In my eyes you are an atheist misusing the bible.

http://youtu.be/9KsNCLjMgTM

 

No He did not. But God did write the Bible. The Bible is God's revelation to man. And, it is the only written revelation of God to man.

Im just telling you what I know.

Quantrill