Putin wants to rename city Volgograd to Stalingrad, whats next? Gulag reopening?

Churchill was a buster, imperialist and alcoholic , but was not even close to cannibal Stalin. post any link

 

Even if we forget about his crimes in Europe, he committed horrendous crimes in British colonies. Here just one example of his crimes:

 

Khruschev was in charge of Ukraine at the time of the holodymir. I know he was a Ukrainian, was he a Ukrainian Jew I don't know, but would it matter? What we do know is that he was an atheist like Stalin, or he would not have been able to be a member of the communist party. I know that Putin was baptized secretly by his mother so his father wouldn't find out since it would have cost him his position in the party.

 

Not true, my friend, Auschwitz was a death camp, people there did not survive more than a year, some were dead in several weeks after arrival. And Bandera survived the war-is not it strange? Actually he was in the labor camp.Sachsenhausen. And looks like he collaborated with Nazis, because they let him out in 1944.

 

http://lurkmore.to/Голодомор

 

People are made to believe white is black, and black is white by the 'controlled' media and the spins in news sources like the BBC, NYTimes, etc. It amazes me the way they can mislabel people at will, and leave out of their 'reportages' anything which suits them, in order to form false impressions in people's minds. I know that this administration like the Clinton administration, are experts at it. They are now carrying these manipulations and the deceptions they are so adept at, into their foreign policy as well.

 

Here's a few notes on Bandera. On January 1 of this year, fifteen thousand marched with torches to commemorate his birthday. His greatest enemy was not the Jews, it was the Russians and the Poles. Here's the means they used to ethnically cleanse the Popes. The Russians have good reason to be frightened, especially after what they did to the peaceful protesters in Odessa:

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


Historians generally agree that Bandera’s forces committed systematic atrocities in order to institute a reign of terror that would drive out the Poles.

Norman Davies:

Villages were torched. Roman Catholic priests were axed or crucified. Churches were burned with all their parishioners. Isolated farms were attacked by gangs carrying pitchforks and kitchen knives. Throats were cut. Pregnant women were bayoneted. Children were cut in two. Men were ambushed in the field and led away.

Timothy Snyder:

Ukrainian partisans burned homes, shot or forced back inside those who tried to flee, and used sickles and pitchforks to kill those they captured outside. In some cases, beheaded, crucified, dismembered, or disemboweled bodies were displayed, in order to encourage remaining Poles to flee.

Various estimates calculate that somewhere between 35,000 and 100,000 Poles died in the Bandera terror.
http://www.counterpunch.org/2014/06/06/the-durability-of-ukrainian-fascism/

 

And eaten half of them... due to the same sources.

 

Wonderful wish. So you would like me to shut up in the name of your 'indexes of freedom of speech'? This tells the real value of all these indexes. A zero value.

 

This is exactly why Stalin would never be recognised as saint by russian orthodox church. The pictures that depict Stalin as saint have nothing to do with the official position of Russian Orthodox Church. There are many other pictures in the INternet and in the streets and near the churches or strange guys who look like priests... Like this for instance:


And of course it is far than enough for people who know nothing to believe any nonsense like believing into Stalin who killed billions or millions of raped german women by soviet asian horde. The truth is that Stalin had no chance to grow a saint. His reign suited his epoque. The epoque of civil war, the most cruel war in history of mankind and a greatest social experiment, which had negative but also useful result.

 

Prove it and start to think then. Can you?

That is why different Europe became one stash for the bad day of US... Marshall was a great economist. That is true. But Europe became just another state of US. Without the right to listen to it's own people about external policy (OSCE troubles to state the obvious air attack of pro-US kievan junta at civil building) and internal policy (introduction of gay marriages in France despite the loss of popularity to the level of the least popular head of state in history).

Really. So what? Us did everything they wanted and being against didn't help Germany to get involved into financing and bear the difficulties of the numerous NATO wars. For the moment US lit a fire nest to Germany... So what? You learnt to be happy with what you were against of, didn't you? Good boy!

If you repeat a lie a thousand times it will not get any proofs.

Ummm... Let's put it this way. Russians respect the freedom. Their level of freedom. If they are given the freedom the size of EU - it will not be enough of course. Russians want to stay russians. And they will be able to protect anyone who is attacked by US authorities. If a guy like Snowden wants to tell something in public he will not go to a free corporate media... He would firstly get out of the ' american democratic' system and flee to... mmm... a country that has the ability to protect him under the terms of international law. If Yanukovich who was leading his country to EU for years and refused of it the last moment was betrayed by EU-puppets who signed the agreement to disarm the opposition and to release the administration building in exchange for elections - he runs to... former enemies, who will be able to protect him. If for some reason you will be threatened to be put into Guantanamo where would you go?

Only understanding and teamwork can lead to peace. The freedom to hate and a democratic elections which is one by the highest bidder is worth than medieval monarchy.

I have your freedom to hate russians and to believe every nonsense that is crapped into heads of major part of westerners. I just don't use it. I have the right to vote and to support the candidate who is approved and already appointed in the White House. But I would take weapons and kill everyone who would ever use such a democratic rule against the wish of russians... The difference exists. I agree. I agree that according to YOUR perception of freedom and democracy I don't have it. But such a slavery has never been a value for me... Am I really obliged to live in Russia exactly like it is demanded from US or EU?

I bet that your decision was not based on Putin's Russia - you just don't know a thing about it. Your change of values was determined by the latest article in the media which you trust. So find any reason for me to try changing your opinion. It is much easier to bribe the owner of media you sit at. If I do it - you would lick the bottom of Putin's shoes, which I would never do myself.

I also think so.

I also believe that West has already deserved to be nuked. I don't understand what is Putin waiting for. The war is already going so not using nuclear arms is just a waste.

They just have the same propaganda for years. You bit a small piece of the pie that they eat since childhood.

 

But Stalin was making a revolution that cost all the people of former Russian empire millions of lives. Being a revolutionary means automatic responsibility for mass murders.

Nuremberg is a nice precedent of law. It convicted a war. It convicted fascism. The people who were recognised criminals in Nuremberg are not remembered. The crimes are. Before Nuremberg wars were legal means of policy. Nuremberg has put a moral border on making wars and being a fascist. Because before Nuremberg it was legal to love your own people at the expense of someone's else. Nuremberg has set a distinction line between love and hatred.
If we think of a second Nuremberg which would be against imperialism, setting color revolutions, being communists we need to look at the experience of the first one and to analyse its mistakes and improve its advantages. Stalin is guilty in being at the head of a state which descended into civil war. You will never be able to use democratic rules once you have to rule armed bands of people who want to drink, rape and kill before they get killed themselves.

That's a good topic for a discussion btw. I would say that the world profited because of USSR and the first attempt to build communism utopia. Russians only suffered because of it. We need to remember the years of cold war and the scientific progress that went enormously due to such a competition. USSR was never an equal rival to capitalist world, but it for sure was a good sparring-partner for the boxer before going into the ring. If we compare the position of western workers before USSR and after when capitalists had to compete we will see the difference. Today's social policy of EU or US is based not on the capitalist ideas of 19th century. Absolutely! And it is not even Hitler ideas (although the actual positioning of EU-countries being not equal is somehow repeating the ideas of dominant race and lower states). EU social policy (!) is mostly built on communist ideas on the leftist's philosophy. And what the wuropeans are proud of for the moment? They are proud of their social policy!
But of course europeans did it themselves and the profit of theirs hasn't happened because of russians. European success is their own merit.

This is another proof that Stalin hasn't made the crimes he is famous about. Only Hitler and Khrushev told nonsense about how people of USSR were suffering under his rule... But the people themselves were protecting his regime the way no regime in Europe was protected.

If we restore the legality of war and fascism criticising Nuremberg trial... Does the world really need it?

 

http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/operation_catapult.htm
This is something really terrible. Once France was defeated they still possessed a decent fleet. There was a possibility that these ships would be used against Britain. It was possible to rely upon the word of french soldiers (who proved that they stayed allied with Allies even after the atrocity that Churchill finally decided and sunk their ships in Tulon in 1942 when germans really tried to get control over it. So to say it simply Churchil ordered to kill allied troops fearing that they can backstab him... So you can possibly estimate the level of alliance between England and France.
UPD Compare it with the behaviour of Stalin towards his pact with Hitler. Stalin wanted to preserve peace until it was already too late... Cannibals don't behave like that, do they?

This decision not only is a crime by itself. It also determined the devastating character of WW2. Of course germans were fascists and they were killing jews and communists, but they didn't want to fight with the whole world. After conquering France and making a regime of Vichy they seeked for ... peace. A temporary of course. But it would still be possible to settle the issues not at the battlefield but at the table which is less bloody. This is 1940 afterall. The loss of France is terrible but let's imagine that Britain has made peace. Then there is a diplomatic maneuver for every side. Germany and Japan can trade and build their policy with the USSR. USA doesn't need to be attacked. Of course Britain would lose it's colonial empire, but it lost empire anyway! The choice of Britain was made into an attempt to preserve the empire... That was decision which Stalin couldn't have made. Stalin was choosing between life and death. Britain had to become a smaller partner of the great Reich... Not to say that I have something aginst of such a choice. But being an opposition of every revolution and war you need to think of tough choices that you have to make anyway.

 

Why should I proof what is obvious? As you demand that I should proof Germany does exits. It is childish. The world knows who the agressor is. Putins Russia. And for that. Putin needs an iron fist in his arrogant loud ugly visage.

France has not less people. Wrong. Unlike Russia, France has 2,0 children for each woman. They exactly do keep their population. May be french men do know better to satisfie women? Think about it.

May be french women are more taking time for children and a nice house than others? Think about it.

May be french men and woman are less occupied with alcohol and moving into wars tha others? Think about it.


You know what really counts? Believe it or not: Food. Food is essential. I do not talk about fast food. I talk about real good food. May be it is not stimulating to eat to much grease and to drink to much alcohol? I am serious. I am certain, if russians would seriously change their main food programm to somethink more healthy (that bad behaviour you do share with the americans, no idea why), it might help you.

About financing the bear:

Germany is on its best way to get out of all financial trouble. The first country in the west what starts to pay back more than it takes. Germany this year will start to pay back not just the intrest - also the money itself.

Unlike the rest. So here, you do really get mistaken...Germany as the only EU country I think does have a balanced househld 2014 and can effort to pay back.

This country is less involved in war games in Ukraine and more involved in real jobs and economy. May be Putin should learn something: To show up muscles is not serving anything real. May be he would do good to build up some real industry. Russia is like it was 1945 almost + western consuming financed on gas and oil...an embaressment indeed.

Really, great Putin.

To cover that desaster, he meets Zirinovksy, buys from time to time some Vodka and arranges to wipe out a neighbor.

"hey "Shoriniwski" (he might say so after he celebrates himself with Vodka) , what about wiping out Georgia next? WE do need some attention from the 70% retards in our country, dawai dawai dawai . wojna, huraahhhhhhh!!!"

Nice politics...

NOT

 

Because it is not obvious. You can say that you believe in what you are sure of. That will be fine. I respect people's beliefs. But if you think that there is a rational explanation - please provide it.

I don't ask for a proof of existance of Germany. Don't mix different things. I ask for the proofs of Putin's aggression wherever you are ordered to think that he performed such an agression. That is a wise thing to make sure of before you get your iron fist ripped of your arm and put deep into the place where your ability to think might being stored.

Of course french men are not any better in women satisfaction than russians. The problem of fertility is not about sexual adventures. It is about economy and ability to supply kids with everything required. Russia is not as developed as France. That's why people prefer to stay with one kid. Besides the period of low birth rate coincided with the wave that hit Russia in 1941-1945. The soldiers and civilians who died those years never made families and never made kids, which never made families and never made kids in their turn. That war is still not overcome and over for Russia. If frenchmen those years knew better how to protect their country the consequences would be easier for Russia...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_alcohol_consumption
15.1 vs 12.2... the difference is not that big. The main problems are economical. The second biggest reason is WW2. If we look at statistics of the world then the leading country with the most growing population are the countries of Africa. But the level of living is different.
Modern Russia is still a young state. We still learn how to live according to capitalist rules. And we change some of the rules that were accepted before.
Modern wars don't affect population that much. As for Ukraine - Russia lost only one soldier there. When western slaves tried to provoke bloodshed between russians and ukrainians there. It is western pupets who kill their own civilians obeying orders of american leaders being paid from western taxpayers...

Russian cuisine is good for our region and climate. If you talk of traditions - then you obviously confuse Siberia and Cote-d'Azur. The difference between way of living affects the difference of food selection. But nowadays tradition is nothing as people mostly eat the same.
Once I need to get food I go to Auchan hyper-market (the cheapest) and choose flakes, vegetables, fruit, meat, fish for the coming week. Milk and milk products I buy in a store nearby... I guess that my russian menu isn't that much different of yours. It might even happen that it is the same.

Good. Because Russia has already paid off its debts (as well as the debt of USSR).

1. As Germany or as EU?
2. Will EU have any chance to pay back if it continues like it goes?
3. Will Germany have any chance to pay back if the european markets get closed for it for 50% returning the share to internal manufacturers?

Soviet developed industry was developed near the sea shores. The electronics was based in Baltic countries. Large engineering manufacturies were based in Ukraine. Soviet clothes industry was based on cotton from southern republics. Once Baltic countries and Ukraine sailed away and southern republics started to deal with heroin rather than cotton Russia lost about half of its potential. The other half was almost lost due to the epoque of wild capitalism. Europe had it in middle ages, US during the slavery epoque. We had to experience it in the end of 20th... If you give Russia at least a century for the way that you covered in a few centuries we would colonise the neighboring galaxies... But we have to live where and when we should and have to compete with more advanced countries. Small wonder that we are left behind.

Ummm? Georgia could have been captured and occupied. If evil Putin wanted it would have been captured. But the aim was to stop their agression against russian peacekeepers and civilians in Abkhazia and Ossetia. If russians get involved into conflict in Ukraine the result would be the same. As in Georgia. Btw they have a different government now. The new government is still about NATO and EU, but... they got rid of Saakashvilli and discovered tortures in jails, politically motivated assasinations, bribes etc... Hopefully this time georgian people do whatever they want but not to kill people around them.

Real politics.

 

If this was really the case, then Poland, GB and SU would have been convicted, too.

GB declared war on the Third Reich, starting WWII.

Even prominent Russian historians, like Sergei Kovalev, agree that Poland (supported by GB and USA) was guilty of the outbreak of WWII.

And Russian historian Mikhail Meltyukhov could prove without any reasonable doubt that Stalin had a plan to invade the Third Reich on June 12, 1941 (see "Stalin's missed chance" ).

Stalin had a huge superiority in tanks, planes, manpower and natural resources, and he could easily conquer the entire Europe, spreading his GULAG-System to the shores of the Atlantic Ocean, if he got the chance to implement his plans.

Besides that, wars did not stop after the Nuremberg Tribunal, they continued and western powers supported fascists regime in Spain, Greece, Chile and so on. The Support of Bandera-followers in Ukraine is one more example. The same with the SU.

No, it has not.

The winners were not punished for their crimes and their hatred.

They got away with their crimes and hatred against civilians, and they preserved the right to hate any people, if that was in their interests.

The winners will again decide who are the "bad guys".
Do we really need that again?
What about the winners? How will you punish them for their crimes?
You cannot do that without an independent court, can you?

I do not think that anybody (except some financial lobbies or some ethnocentric minorities) profited from that Utopia.

Are you sure that intelligent Europeans are proud of it?



That is the reason why Europeans are now replaced in their countries by Third-World-Migrants that are attracted by European welfare states.

Fascism has just become a buzz word.

Everybody calls its perceived enemies "Nazis" or "Fascists".

Putin is calling his enemies "Fascists" and his enemies are calling him "Fascists" and "New Hitler".

If Putin loses the confrontation, then the winners will do another Nuremberg and find witnesses that will testify that Putin was guilty of starting the conflict and committing "atrocities" against the "innocent" followers of Badera.



Do we really need another trial, like in Nuremberg, were the winning criminals judge the criminals, that are losers?

No, we need an unbiased study of history and an independent court.

Today most people only know the "Mickey-Mouse- Version" of History, produced by Hollywood, or the Soviet version of Mosfilm-History, which is similar to the Hollywood version.

Many good historians did a great work since the end of WWII, but most people are not familiar with these works.

If you do not know what really happened in the past, you will be unable to prevent the repetition of the past in the future.

"New Fascists" always call themselves " anti-Fascists", but intelligent people should be clever enough not to play these silly semantic games, they should study real history and use their brains.

 

Classic deflection tactic. You can't really justify your position so you bring up a "but this is also bad, so why pick on ..." and throw in a "but he did do some good" for good measure.

Ataturk being a bad boy doesn't reduce the crimes of Hitler and Stalin by one iota. It's completely extraneous to the discussion. If my cat has fleas, it doesn't make your dog having rabies any less of a problem.

As for Stalin helping to defend Mother Russia against the Nazis, some historians have argued that the combination of his gutting of the efficiency of the military prior to the war combined with the many bad commands he made during the war resulted in the deaths of at least 10 million Russians that would have otherwise survived. Russia defeated the Nazis in spite of Stalin: not because of him.

 

and now you want to make people believe that the real victim in WW2 was Germany, yeah.

Just go ahead, but do never ever again dare to tell inhere that your positions do represent german mainstream, because that "mainstream " has been wiped out in the fires of Berlin in 1945.

Your true colors are obvious inhere.

What I find so amazing and funny inhere:

You do support russian agression inhere.

In 1939 Hitler also did support russian agression - and a little later he attacked his loved Stalin.

As I said: Communism, Nazism: ALL SAME

The biggest mistake my fatherland has done after 1945 was to allow old nazis to stay in service. Only an extreme integration in the EU will make Germany a better country. These old spirit should not be allowed to be reborn again.

I regret that you do not want to get it: your thinking was responsible for so much misery also our fatherland went truth.

 

Will Donetsk revert to being called Stalino?

 

bull(*)(*)(*)(*)!!!

the Soviets never deported any Russians just because they were Russian

Russian was the official language of the USSR.

if the Russians were the greatest victims of the Soviets, why do the Russians worship Stalin like a God????????????? they are the only ones who do this.

 

What "Russian aggression" are you talking about?

What are you talking about?

The Soviet aggression?

How many times do have to repeat that SU was an anti-Russian and anti- Christian state?

Please try to remember, that Russian Federation was only one of many republics in the SU, that Stalin was a Georgian, and most of his followers were from Ukraine.

Do you say that Hitler loved Stalin?



Anybody who learned history from serious sources knows that there could be love between Stalin and Hitler.

In fact, Stalin never met with Hitler!

But there is a beautiful picture of Uncle Joe, Churchill and Roosevelt, they look like good buddies!




Hitler was against Communism, Hitler loved England, and he tried to avoid a war between Germany and the British Empire and the West in general.

That are historical facts, everybody can check them.

Hitler was pressed to solve the Danzig-Problem, and he begged the Brits and other western countries to help in solving this problem that was created by the Treaty of Versailles.

After the Brits refused to solve this problem, Hitler was forced to a temporary strategic agreement with Stalin in order to solve the Danzig-Problem.

That are historical facts that anybody can check.

Well, not many people would agree with that, but you are entitled to your own opinion, you have the right to believe that this is the case and that your opinion is mainstream.

Well, that may be your opinion.

But anybody who reads our discussions can see that you are the one who is advocating ethnic cleansing and supporting the followers of Bandera, not me.

That is the kind of thinking that was similar to the ideology of National Socialists who advocated collective punishment and ethnic cleansing.

I am against the collective punishment, I am for the rights of people to self-determination, and I am against the atrocities of the ideological followers of Bandera who believe that civilians are legitimate targets.

I am sure that I am an honest and decent guy, there is nothing I should be ashamed of.

Let the readers of this forum decide for themselves who is who!

 

and yet Russians today worship Stalin like a Saint, plastering his face all over their buses.

 

"Poland (supported by GB and USA) was guilty of the outbreak of WWII." we have Mr Zhirinovsky with us
ps for those who dont know this story, pure "horror move" , dont watch it with kids...

[video=youtube;4IV9d6586VQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4IV9d6586VQ&feature=player_detailpage[/video]

 

The Russian Orthodox Church was destroyed by anti-Christians... just because it was Russian Orthodox Church, and the Russian Christians were killed for the same reason.

English is still the official language of the USA.
Does that mean that USA is controlled by Brits?

Another blanket statements about THE Russians.

SOME Russians and some Jews who live in Russia or Israel still warship Stalin.

But there are way more Jews in Israel that warship Ovadia Yosef than Russians in Russia that warship Stalin.

Stop making blanket statements about Russians, try to see the real world.

 

The Soviet Union was in fact the cadre to lift up russian power as Yougoslavia was the cadre to do so with serbians.

The Soviet Union was as communism very useful to push russian nationalism. In fact I am not eaven certain if people like Stalin believed in Socialism. I think he simply wanted power and when I say power I mean fascist power.

So he could base his desire for fascist power on russian nationalism.

Putin allways is claiming to be very religious...he is using that to push fascistic power...same structure.

And that you by the way really want to hold the polish and anglo-saxons responsible for the start ogf WW2

THAT DOES SHOW THAT I AM RIGHT ABOUT YOU! You are in a trap. Backpaddling is imsossible. You are exactly what I did mention before inhere.

I really make clear, that I take as a german distance to such terrible evil thinking. I have nothing in common and I think the german I speak is in it's origin more soft, nicer and better to be understood as what you tell to the people inhere.

My german is not that different to the mainstream. Yours is. But not in the better way...

By the way...at lest you seem to live in Germany. That makes it possible that you know that most russian jews immigrate here or also to Israel, because they cannot stand actual antisemitism in that country.

Howcome? Tell me, tell us...because the russians do treat them so nicely? Tell me!