Germany mulls reintroduction of compulsory military service

I think that was because the government still had a stranglehold on the media. Now, with the internet, cell phones, social media, mass communication, and now AI, etc, the government has lost control of the messages that young people are receiving. The government has lost control, which I see as a very good thing. Young people are no longer fooled, even when compared to the Vietnam protests. The entire world is waking up to the manipulations of the elite and how they throw lives away carelessly as long as it lines their pocket.

 

dienst....tja....leck mich

 

That seems to be an anti-civilization opinion since it puts the success of the war into the hands of the country willing to make to go with compulsory service. What would happen if Ukraine suddenly decided to stop their draft and release all solders who were drafted (unless they wanted to volunteer to stay of course). I would argue that Ukraine wouldn't have much of an army in that case, because it wouldn't stop the Russians from drafting.

 

I guess if they did not voluntarily stay and fight, they become part of Russia. If they want it bad enough, they will stay and fight. But it should be their decision. Otherwise, I guess they would rather be part of Russia than get slaughtered in a meatgrinder. Life would go on, and likely would not be a whole lot different.
If they really don't want to be part of Russia to the point of being willing to lay down their lives for it, then more power to them. But it should be their choice, not the government's.

Otherwise, I see no difference between Ukraine and Russia. What's the difference? Seems like it is all semantics, both pretty much corrupt and willing to send its people to the slaughter.

 

Not really the issue. The issue is economics. Firstly when unemployment is low there's little incentive for younger workers to take military jobs. (That's why recruitment targets are easier to meet is easier when the job market is slack.) Many potential recruits can earn at least as as much (usually more) outside of the military than they can inside it, at least initially. On top of that those most civilian jobs won't necessarily be as arduous or as demanding and that's even before considering the risk of actual combat should that situation ever arise. It also doesn't help that a depressing large % of potential recruits don't meet the military's physical standards or are otherwise temperamentally unsuited for service.

From the military's perspective? The simplest (economic solution) would be to increase the wages offered to junior soldiers to the point where military service becomes an attractive option. But again that's horrendously expensive and would simply result in salaries 'eating' up most of county's defense budget. As it stands currently the US government spends about 30% of the defense budget on salaries. So double the size of the full time military? Suddenly that's more than 60% of the current budget gone - without adding in accommodation and medical care etc. Raising the defense budget even more to pay for those new soldiers. Who pays for it? So unless you just going to equip your soldiers with sticks and a bad attitude?

 

Using Ukraine as an example was not to refight the Russia Ukraine war, but to show that without a draft this war would have been over within the first year. We drafted 10 million men in World War II. Now you could legitimately argue that many of those men would have joined anyway, but our ability to respond to both the Japanese and Germans would have been limited by irregular entries of people, and we wouldn't have been able to have the size of the military that we needed. If we had lost that war simply because we couldn't mobilize enough troops to match the Axis, who had no compunctions about the draft, you again, could make a moral argument that we didn't deserve to win and the Axis did, but I suspect we would be living in a much more horrific world as a result.

 

Nothing horrific lasts long. People won't stand for it. Yeah, it might last a little while, but then the guillotines get dragged out and heads start to roll. The way I see things , there is only a single spectrum that matters in this life. Its two ends are freedom and slavery/domination. Good and evil is always extremely subjective, but freedom or a lack of it is something you either have or you don't. Freedom of speech, freedom of religion, and freedom to do what the hell you want with your life.
I would say there is an argument to be made that if you go too far in the freedom direction you have anarchy and lawlessness. For me, the line is once your actions start affecting other people in a negative way, that is where laws need to be made. But governments dictating how you will live, and forcing you to kill those you may have no reason to kill, or supporting causes you may not believe in... that is beyond the pale.

 

Well I agree that's the ultimate result of your philosophy, let the Nazi's win, it can't last forever and I still have my principals and freedom, until I'm hauled away to a camp and gassed. But principles!

 

How so? Like you have already said, people were volunteering by the millions across the allies to fight the Nazis. I'm not saying don't fight. I'm saying let people decide when it is a cause important enough to them to lay their lives down for.
And yes, principles. Without them, all of this is meaningless. Better to get gassed and die on principles than to become what you are against.

 

OK. You said it better than I did.

 

Good luck with that, no chance I'm going to die in some neocon war. Unless it's a direct defense of the homeland they can get stuffed.

 

The United States desperately needs a draft as well.

 

why not?

 

I don't fight and die for tyranny. I'd take a firing squad first.

 

why not?

 

Compulsory service may be the price of staying free. On the other hand it might set off the next overwhelming migration of young liberal American men heading for Canada.

 

You know that not many young American men fled to Canada during the Vietnam War?

 

I don't have a head count but there were some, more than there should have been.

 

I doubt it very much. If the threat is THAT serious, I doubt there would be any shortage of volunteers. Compulsory service is the first sign that the "cause" is utter BS that is only getting young men killed to line the pockets of the elite.

 

That is because the Vietnam War was BS, and was never a threat to the freedom of Americans. The only threat to freedom was the politicians enacting the draft. There was no reason to fight in Vietnam, except to appease French colonialists. Ultimately, it became communist anyway.

 

I abhor tyranny.

 

Even when the U.S. had a draft draftees could still legally avoid military service.

 

You didn't know that during the Vietnam War thanks to the draft more of the sons of the "elite" served than ever before?

 

because the U.S. gave up and left genius.

 

Of course - I was lost in a boating accident. Fell off the boat. Body never recovered.