Germany mulls reintroduction of compulsory military service

If Finland can draw 870 000 man reserve (240 000 combat) with a population of 5 million and Germany has population of 87 million, then their military and reserves would be massive.

Germany mulls reintroduction of compulsory military service
https://www.dw.com/en/germany-mulls-...ice/a-67853437
At the end of October, the Bundeswehr said it counted 181,383 soldiers in its ranks — that's still some distance from the target of 203,000 that the German military hopes to reach by 2025. This has given rise to concern in times of Russia's war against Ukraine, which has once again reminded Germans how quickly conflicts can erupt in Europe.

Since taking office at the beginning of 2023, Defense Minister Boris Pistorius has been thinking about ways to make the Bundeswehr more attractive as a career. He said he has received 65 concrete proposals from his ministry on recruitment and reforming training methods.

Even conscription, something Germany ended in 2011, is also up for debate. "There were reasons at the time to suspend compulsory military service. In retrospect, however, it was a mistake," Pistorius told newspaper Die Welt earlier in December.

 

Putler is on a European tour....I hear he misses his former Dresden office?

 

Maybe one day he can tour the West European prison system.

 

The Germans have big problems.

https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/2024/03/missile-woes-for-german-navy/

They aren't being very good NATO partners.

 

I would have expected an article like this to come out a few weeks or months after the Ukraine war started, not 2 years into it. It’s like they’re hellbent on bending over with their pants down and finally get bored of waiting to get Fed so they eventually pull up their knickers.

What next, their very last bullet will be sent to Ukraine before they decide they might want to make more?

 

Woah! Things are getting pretty serious now. Before you know it young men all across the Western world are going to be called up. And I'm sure we all know why that's going to happen. One day, not too far off, we'll all wake up to World War 3.

 

Germany badly needs to do so. The UK also has a tiny force and needs to build up a reserve of trained men via conscription/national service.

 

hopefully they don’t implement this. I see compulsory service, conscription, etc, as the antithesis of the supposedly “free world”.

voluntary or nothing. If they refuse, and the whole country is overrun, then that in itself is an expression of their free will. Better that than compulsory service.

 

Before ending, German conscription was for 6 months of service - 3 months combat training and 3 months assigned duty.

It's not clear whether reserves with that amount of training would be very useful in a war.

Given the complexity of current weapons systems and the rate at which tactics and weapons are changing, someone conscripted and trained for 6 months a decade ago is not going to be very effective.

 

It does not take away your freedom. Lot of countries consider military service as a citizens duty, and people are happy to serve their country. It unites. As a matter of fact there are only four countries which have fully voluntary service. US is one of them, and even we adopted it only recently (1973).

Its enough. During Vietnam we sent people to combat with 17 weeks of training.

More specialized fields get more training, and they have professionals taking care of the most complex, like flying planes, driving tanks etc

 

Lol, what??? How is being forced to serve in the military not against freedom?? Just because countries have always done it does not make it anti-freedom. If you are being forced against your will to give up years of your life, possibly putting your life on the line, you are not free.

 

They don't see it that way. They are honored by it. They understand that their service is required to defend their freedoms. You see is as "forced" and "anti-freedom", and you are welcome to your opinion.

They serve because they are willing to defend not only their own freedom, but also the freedoms of their fellow citizens. You can claim freedom means that you can sit on the couch in front of your TV and watch others fight for your freedom. Are Americans not free because we have jury duty? Have you ever heard the saying "Freedom is not free"?

 

Conscription is one of the ways the government can kill you. Government is a monopoly protection racket. In order to enable government to protect you, your property, etc., we agree to give the government the power to kill, steal, and kidnap (e.g. execute, tax, and arrest). Which is why government is dangerous and must be kept small, well organized, and constrained, but powerful enough to defend its borders and eliminate any competing domestic protection rackets (e.g. organized crime).

Ukraine is being fought at a higher technological level than Vietnam. Furthermore, our draft was for 2 years of service. The alternative shorter training put you in the Guard, with continuing training over longer period of time.

 

if they are honored to do it and want to, then that is voluntary. That is fine. I served for 20 years and se it as an honor.

what would happen if they did NOT want to, would there be repercussions?? If there are, then they are not free.

And the saying “freedom isn’t free” is one of the great brainwashing lies of history, as that in itself destroys freedom.

 

I'm on the fence about compulsory military service. I don't actually see a problem with it and I think it would have it's benefits. The drawback is, our culture wouldn't support it. We're too concerned with not being told what to do and having no limitations, rules, or social responsibilities because freedom.

 

Then you are an anarchist. Even Libertarians believe one of the few duties of the government is to provide for national defense. In a country like the US we have the luxury of very large population, but smaller countries with populations of 5 million or so only have one way to defend themselves and that is to train their men to defend the nation. People in Finland, Switzerland, Israel etc do not see things the way you do. They KNOW what's at stake if the nation is defenseless. They feel its the man's duty to defend their loved ones, and their country. Even Americans used to think that way, but now lot of people see it as "evil government taking away your freedom".

They seek for exemptions. In Finland and Switzerland you can choose civilian service, but vast majority choose military, which shows how willing the population is to perform their citizens duty. Same is true in South Korea. Of course those who are physically or mentally incapable to serve (like Trump) then they are excuses. I would assume people who do not serve are socially 'marked' for life.

Our younger generations would greatly benefit from such service.

 

Strictly voluntary service forces a government to engage only in necessary wars, or else you got what we are experiencing now. No one trusts our government anymore because they continuously engage in BS wars that are about profit and power rather than necessity.

If you keep the military strictly voluntary, and the people TRUST the government to engage only in legitimate wars of necessity, volunteers will flood the recruiting office.

Right now our governments do not deserve our service. They have been continuously engaging in unnecessary wars for decades. That is why voluntary service is not working. They abuse their power, sending our young men into harms way for the profit of the elite.

So, I stand by what I say. Voluntary service only, or else we are not free.

 

Our strictly voluntary service has engaged in more unnecessary wars than any other country.

Finland, South Korea, Israel and Switzerland are not engaging in anything other than preparing for a potential attack on their country.

No, which is evidenced in those NATO countries which do not have conscription, and why Germany is thinking about making it mandatory.

That goes against what you said earlier (Strictly voluntary service forces a government to engage only in necessary wars).

Whether or not the government engages in wars has nothing to do with voluntary vs mandatory service. The decades long US foreign policy got us involved in wars, even though we are not involved in a war now.

 

I an not an anarchist. The ideal is to have one, small, well constrained protection racket. There is no zero protection racket alternative. The only alternative to having one is to have multiple protection rackets, i.e. the failed state situation with multiple warlords, e.g. Somalia, Haiti, Sudan, Yemen, etc. Not having a monopoly protection racket (government) is worse than having a monopoly protection racket that is too strong, e.g. Iran, North Korea.

 

No, it goes EXACTLY with what I am saying. The government is struggling to fill the ranks because it has abused military force over the last couple of decades. two disastrous wars, and we are close to being involved in a few more. The fact that the government is struggling to fill the ranks is a GOOD thing. Hopefully they get the message that their abuses have consequences.

Your first point, "Our strictly voluntary service has engaged in more unnecessary wars than any other country", is exactly right. And that is why our military is having a harder and harder time to fill the ranks. As it should be. That is freedom speaking out. Forced service would squash the voices of those protesting our country's actions.

 

You didn't get the point

Your claim: Strictly voluntary service forces a government to engage only in necessary wars

The truth is has NOT done that in US, since the opposite is true.

On the contrary, the countries which I mentioned, which have mandatory service have NOT engaged in unnecessary wars.

We engage in wars because we know we can win them with overwhelming force, and we can afford to fight them away from the US soil

The smaller countries will not engage in unnecessary wars, because they do not have the capability to project wars on the other side of the plant. Unlike the US, they cannot advance their agenda using the military (even if they wanted to). Their militaries are designed for a single purpose: the defend their soil against an invasion.

 

The USA is now paying the price for abusing its power, like I've said. And it will only get worse as the latest generation comes to adulthood. My claim is correct.
As for the other countries, they simply are not as free if they have mandatory military service.

 

What do you mean "now"? Our foreign policy has been same for 80 years.

 

We are not meeting recruitment goals, not even close. And it is getting worse every year. This last year, recruitment goals were missed by 41,000. The Air Force is trying to bring back retired personnel.

Young people see how our government has abused the military, sending them to endless, morally wrong, pointless wars, wrecking them mentally and physically, then giving them **** for treatment, all while lining their own pockets with kickbacks from the MIC. They are saying "no thanks". That is what I mean about "now".

 

Well, it must be some kind of awakening because our foreign policy has been same for decades. Iraq and Afghanistan with multiple deployments didn't help for sure, but IMO things will normalize after some time passes. Think about what kind of impact Vietnam had, and that normalized too.