Germany mulls reintroduction of compulsory military service

There were two military organizations and their job was to kill each other. It was the American side that was trying to stop communism, 58,220.

 

I didn't know that. Thanks. I was a draftee and was awarded the Army Commendation Medal. We refer to the medal as the "green weenie" but that, promotion to E5 within my first year of service and an honorable discharge indicate that I served well. The other draftees with whom I worked also served well. None of us were fond of the military life but we had enough personal responsibility to do it right. I support conscription. Not only is it good for the military but it is also good for conscripts since it teaches important life skills and discipline at a young age.

 

Vietnam deaths are fact. How many died of COVID is opinion. We only know how may died while testing positive for COVID as a fact.

 

Oh yeah? Are you talking from experience.

 

According to Canada about 40,000 ran away.
https://bcanuntoldhistory.knowledge.ca/1960/war-resisters-in-bc

 

I've never been drafted, if that is what you mean. And I never will be.

 

Why are you so fanatically opposed to it then?

 

Because I know I would not want to be drafted? Seems like a simple concept to me. It's that whole "Golden Rule" concept. Maybe you've heard of it. Maybe not.

And when I was a drill sergeant, it was enough of a pain in the ass dealing with privates that WANTED to be there. It would be a ****ing nightmare dealing with them if they all did not want to be there, and it would definitely impact the quality of the training, leading to increased soldier mortality.

 

This is the biggest obstacle for the US military. When I was an NCO it was usually one or two guys who seemed to occupy my entire time. A platoon of draftees who did not want to be there would be a nightmare. Of course when we had the draft more direct action was allowed that isn't allowed today.

 

I feel your pain, lol. And you are right about the "direct action", but in today's environment, I don't think that would be allowed. People are far more thin-skinned than they used to be, and with cell phones available NCOs, especially drill sergeants, have to be VERY careful about what they do, or careers are quickly destroyed.

 

When your nation gets attacked, there will be no time to think about necessary or unnessercery. It's war.

Swiss or Finnish men do have much more freedoms than you might think in "the land of the free".

 

That's great, but having they freedoms they allow you is not the same as being free. Freedom in that case only lasts until they decide you will go to war. granted, Switzerland and Finland don't exactly go to war often, but in the USA it is a totally different story. We are at war more often than not these past few decades.

 

I'm learning that the USAmerican concept of freedom is quite different from the Europeans'. Maybe "dignity" is a concept USAmericans lay way less stress upon. The first sentence of the German constution is not about freedom, but about dignity: "The dignity of man is untouchable".

 

Maybe they would want to be there if they agreed with the cause, like I am sure Israelis, Finns, and Swiss do. They understand the risk of not being there. Getting shipped to Vietnam, which had very little to do with US, had many wondering if it was worth dying for.

People confuse freedom with anarchy and take it for granted.

 

dying in a war that only benefits elites is not very dignified.

 

That is obviously not why Germany is considering conscription.

 

then why?

 

Obvious. They think Russia might attack, and US under Trump will dishonor the alliance, and when that happens, others might do the same.

Maybe a divorce from NATO is beneficial to both sides. There is no point in clinging to it, if the members can't trust each other.

The "evil elites" is an old commie line, which led to the Soviet revolution in 1917.

 

I don't think you need to worry about American commitment to NATO when the time comes.

 

Those countries have the draft, but it's independent of any particular cause or an individual war.

 

That's the idea in Germany too. They are not training to start a war, but to defend their country if need be.

 

Uh, no, it is more relevant now than ever. If you think any of our elected officials are actually the people running the show, you are living in a fantasy land. The real power is held by those that are never elected, who could care less whether democrats or republicans win elections.

As far as NATO goes, it has grown way to powerful and large to be considered defensive in nature. I don't see how Russia could view it as anything but an offensive power play, nothing defensive about it.

 

Without military service there would be no free society. Willingness to perform the former is the price of the latter.
“People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.”
― George Orwell

 

I see the tinfoil hat brigade has weighed in.
NATO grew because Russia's neighbors asked to join.

 

The NATO members already worry. As a matter of fact, they are discussing Plan-B assuming US leaves.

Europe must be ready for US to quit Nato, diplomats warn
Capitals must ‘do the planning’ and reconsider defence capabilities in light of threats by Donald Trump
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-n...be-ready-for-us-to-leave-nato-diplomats-warn/
European nations must be ready if Donald Trump pulls the US out of Nato, foreign diplomats have told The Telegraph.

Yes, and I think they are strong enough to go without the US if need be