Germany mulls reintroduction of compulsory military service

Western victory in the Cold War opened the way to freedom and prosperity to hundreds of millions of people.

 

Based on what I have read it would mean military service for vast majority of people, and the other types of service are those who refuse military service, like Jehovan Witnesses, hippies and other pacifists

 

Arguably would've happened at any rate(maybe sooner, maybe later), but the world miserably planned the post-Soviet era.

 

You're so star spangled American, you cannot imagine that other countries handle things in other ways - without being brutal, undemocratic, or repressing. The other people forming the American society aren't just the bad government.

Prison? Why prison? If someone is too stubborn and too selfish, than it's better to let him go than to force him to clean wounds or drive caterpillars. He never would be of good use.

Is prison the American Way?

 

Don't know where you have read this. This would be the return of the draft. And this one does nobody want anymore.
I think it will be like this: You get a letter with a list of proposals, then you get invitations from the Red Cross, the Bundeswehr, natur protection clubs, senior residences, hospitals and so on and they will try to convince you to join.

 

We disagree. Destruction of the USSR and the Soviet empire was a great achievement whose benefits continue.

 

I read it in a German news outlet. Did you read the OP? I think the choices will be more like this: Option 1 = Army. Option 2 = Navy.

Germany mulls reintroduction of compulsory military service
https://www.dw.com/en/germany-mulls-...ice/a-67853437
At the end of October, the Bundeswehr said it counted 181,383 soldiers in its ranks — that's still some distance from the target of 203,000 that the German military hopes to reach by 2025. This has given rise to concern in times of Russia's war against Ukraine, which has once again reminded Germans how quickly conflicts can erupt in Europe.

 

Sadly it often is. But it shouldnt be, which is why Im opposed to mandatory military service and conscription. Historically (and even in other countries) it usually ends up as 'either serve or get locked up.' That's what we've been talking about, isn't it?

 

Why should it end in prison? Even in McCathy-times no-one was sentenced to even some months of prison. Prison won't help them, prison is expensive, prison don't changes minds, and if force them to do what they do not want to do, they will perform pretty bad.

But the idea, that everyone has to serve the society a certain short time, opens minds.

 

What happens to someone if they refuse compulsory military service?

 

2,7 million Germans refused to serve in the Bundeswehr since 1961 and they just had to do their duty in the civilian sector. Zivildienst (civil service) was the alternative which meant to work in a hospital, care center or similar institutions.

The discussion in Germany is about a mandatory service year, for both genders (and the fantasy ones) in the military or the civilian sector.

 

I find that less unacceptable. I'm still opposed to mandated service (surely it could be suitably incentivized instead...?) but if the alternative is community service, that's not so terrible.

The last conscription we had in the US resulted in the choice between military service or prison, and it left a bad taste in everyone's mouth.

 

.....the guys I knew all enjoyed their time....surely it depends on the type of person you are coupled with what you're doing and the people instructing....the point would be to get the right people doing the right thing

 

Conscription is definitely not the way to get the right people doing the right thing. Its only the way to get people to do something they have no interest in at all.

 

Oh look who is trying to go all butch.

Denmark Plans to Expand Military Draft to Women for the First Time and Extend Service Terms

COPENHAGEN, Denmark — Denmark wants to increase the number of young people doing military service by extending conscription to women and increasing the time of service from 4 months to 11 months for both genders, Danish Prime Minister Mette Frederiksen said Wednesday.

“We do not rearm because we want war. We are rearming because we want to avoid it,” Frederiksen told a press conference. She said the government wants ”full equality between the sexes.”

Denmark currently has up to 9,000 professional troops on top of the 4,700 conscripts undergoing basic training, according to official figures. The government wants to increase the number of conscripts by 300 to reach a total of 5,000.

The country is a member of the NATO alliance and a staunch supporter of Ukraine in its war against Russia’s invasion.


What caught my eye was how tiny Denmark's military actually is. They are basically useless as a NATO partner, unable to contribute basically nothing to NATO. They couldn't even defend themselves from a big city police department. The only NATO use NATO could have is as a staging area for US troops. This is a great example of how NATO has allowed European militaries to atrophy because they know the US will handle things. It's all a plus for them and a negative for us.

 

At the moment the USA is of no good for Europe - We face a new enemy and have an imperial war in our neighborhood. What is Trump doing? He blocks the help for the Ukraine.

Yes, Europe is waking up and is getting aware that we free countries in Europe are on our own. In Germany debates about own German Nuclear Bombs already have started.

 

I'm not sure how that relates to my post. Nor am I sure what Trump has to do with any of this since he isn't in office. However, common sense does seem to indicate that countries should be able to defend themselves (something that Denmark is totally incapable of doing). The EU is richer than the US and has a bigger population base, so you guys should be able to field a pretty massive and effective military.

Good luck!

 

I guess the idea is to combine their air force with the other Nordic members, which now includes Sweden and Finland. Its good they are moving to expand their ground forces. Their population is same as Finland and Finland can mobilize a reserve of nearly 900 000 men.

Clearly Europe is preparing to potentially fight without the US, and US should prepare to fight China-Russia without NATO. We might need a draft too.

 

Aaaaaaha! The USA is God's own country, the land of the free and home of the brave, but Europe is richer, which means more successful, isn't it? Don't be afraid, we will defend ourselves against Putin, as well as we know what Trump will do: Tell the Americans that they are the greatest perople on earth, make the plegde of alligence the most important thing like Count Gessler's hat, close the borders against immigration and trades and by this ruining the societey and the industry, but all this with great pathetic patriotism, important speaches and colorful parades. Trust in God, but we in Europe can't trust in the transatlantic alliance anymore.

 

What Germany should do is make it mandatory that any German who receives welfare handouts from the government, including free rent, free utilities, regular monthly payments for nothing in return, free this, free that, must perform work in return! My German friends tell me that there are one HELL of a lot of Germans who collect almost unbelievable amounts of money for simply sitting on their asses and pretending to be looking for work! The government that shovels out all the welfare goodies should put them to work doing "civil service" jobs of dozens of kinds, even if it's only manual labor.

But putting a whole new generation of young Germans in the military? People who characteristically hate the military, hate their own country, and who would have access to weapons, sensitive information, and vital systems that keep military infrastructure running? Maybe that's NOT a good idea.

 

The Swiss, Israelis and Finns seem to think its a good idea. Military straightens out the slackers and thins out the fat ones.

 

In Switzerland, Israel, and Finland, compulsory military service may work, but I honestly don't see it working in today's Germany. Besides, if a left-wing chancellor like Olaf Scholz tried to push it through the Bundestag, he'd be signing his own political "death-warrant", and as it is, he's almost certainly going to be removed from office in the next German national election.

My own take? The only person at a high level who's fit to be the next Chancellor of Germany is a CDU politician named Friedrich Merz. But, in all honesty, not even he could push compulsory military service through.

 

Um.....why would it not work in Germany, when it worked just fine until 2011?

 

Clearly you're angry because of the faintest of possibilities that Europe's free ride could be over. But since it sounds like you have plenty of resentment towards the patron of your free ride, maybe that's for the best.

 

Exactly. People must have freedom to fight for freedom or freedom to be became slaves. If they are smart as German, they have freedom to convince other countries to fight for them. Kudos to Finland people who are willing to fight for the defence of Germany!