Germany mulls reintroduction of compulsory military service

Excellent. Try to get NATO to expel the U.S. The U.S. isn't smart enough to leave on its own. If we aren't needed then we shouldn't participate.

 

Ask any mature, self-supporting German, Pro... Germany is no longer the country it was in 2011. Sixteen years under Merkel took its toll while she and her partner-in-crime, Ursula von der Leyen, sucked so much funding away from the Bundeswehr and squandered it on a welfare-doling "peace-dividend". Again, ask any German older than about 45.

. "Like you Americans, we Germans allow parasites to VOTE!"

 

How exactly did Germans change so drastically since 2011?

I'll ask my sister-in-law. She is German, or "a germ" as I like to call her. I find it hard to believe that a whole nation of people can somehow change totally just because of one politician.

PS I checked your claim about funding, and the opposite is true, - Germany is spending more on military, not less, than in 2011

 

Irony alert!

 

That's one way to avoid the question.

How did Merkel change Germans in 10 years so that they'd suddenly refuse to serve in the military? One poster offered the excuse that they cut military funding, but the opposite was true

 

Germany is spending a small amount more on defense now than it was during the Russian run-up to its invasion of Ukraine, but it is still no more than 1.39% -- far less than the 2% minimum that it had agreed to (and now has reneged on... twice in the last year).

You may enjoy these articles:
https://www.spiegel.de/internationa...dustry-a-8666a348-8654-4626-9dca-9bdc4f4609e8

https://www.theglobaleconomy.com/Germany/mil_spend_gdp/ . What is not made clear, however, is if there was any allowance for both inflation and the value of the euro (and the earlier Deutsche Mark) versus the dollar from 1960 onwards.

I don't know why you find it surprising that one bad chancellor or president can have deep-reaching effects on a country... look at what Obama did to the United States in just eight years. Then remember that Kanzlerin Angela Merkel had twice that long to screw Germany up....

BUT, to your point, not all Germans are against the reintroduction of conscription today: https://www.dw.com/en/most-germans-want-compulsory-military-service-return-poll/a-64935279 . But remember, I have suggested that the 'under-45' crowd is markedly different from older Germans, and so this extract from the article: "Among respondents aged 18-39, meanwhile, 39% supported reintroduction for all and another 21% supported it for men only."

 

I would believe it if it made sense and if there was evidence of it, but it doesn't make sense and there is no evidence

What did he do? I know Republicans hated him, like they hate all Democrats, but people didn't change. Did you change? Trump did bring out the extremists in those who already had radical tendencies, but we'll get over it.

Then remember that Kanzlerin Angela Merkel had twice that long to screw Germany up....

Actually your article says MOST want it to return: "Compulsory military service was suspended in 2011. A recent survey suggests 61% of Germans want it reintroduced, with over a third saying it should apply to women as well as men."

You have successfully defeated your own argument.

 

By presenting both sides of the situation I tried to drill down below the opaque surface headline. The truth will emerge on the day that Germany does actually enact military conscription again -- and on that day I will be happy to concede 'defeat'! Meanwhile, however, Germany can't even provide support for defense in the meagre amount of 2% which it has promised and reneged on twice in the last year!

Looking at that alone, I just can't discern much zeal for the reintroduction of conscription. And never forget, with the passing of every month, there are fewer Germans over the age of about 40, but more and more under that age.... In case you missed it here's their measured sentiment about military conscription again:

""Among respondents aged 18-39, meanwhile, 39% supported reintroduction for all and another 21% supported it for men only."

Do you know anyone in the BundeswehrVerbandt (DBwV)? Does you sister-in-law? Look a little deeper than the surface and you may be surprised at what you'll see. If nothing else, believe this: Scholz ain't gonna be re-elected, even if he and his Socialists decide to ditch any kind of new conscription initiative....

 

Conscription is a cheaper way to provide for national defense, so if money is the issue, and of majority of people support it, then that will likely be the path they choose.

We'll have to wait and see.

 

I didn't ask the question, I was merely pointing out something funny that you posted.

 

I know. I asked the question. Don't worry about it, I didn't expect you to answer, and the question was not even directed at you.

 

Germany is spending more than 2% this year.
https://www.dw.com/en/germany-to-hit-nato-budget-goal-for-1st-time-since-cold-war/a-68254361

 

You may find this article from about three months ago interesting: https://www.ft.com/content/95d47316-b357-4fc3-b25d-34645eef8abc
German chancellor Olaf Scholz admits uncertainty over defence spending

In the article you see:

"That pledge (Scholz's) has sat uncomfortably with Germany’s tightly constrained fiscal situation. A constitutionally enshrined “debt brake” limits public debt to 60 per cent of GDP, meaning vast increases to the defence budget, as pledged, will strip funding for other politically sensitive departments."

After Scholz made the 2% 'guarantee', his bureaucrats pulled some 'magic tricks' and a workaround was found last year with the creation of an emergency €100bn “special fund” to top-up military spending. But going forward, there's little to guarantee the "guarantee" -- and Germany has already reneged on the 2% commitment twice in the last year. Bottom line? With the kind of hole that Germany has been digging for itself for over two years, 'don't bet the farm that Scholz's 'guarantee' will hold up....

 

...sure I'm not advocating that it's universally a good thing it's just that at the time...those that I knew that had gone through it found that overall they gained from the experience....two guys were in a couple of stages of the tall ships round the world race, they would never have been able to partake in that had they not been in the Navy. It's a difficult one to be sure, but on balance I don't think it would work....well at least not for most people at this time in this age....who knows?

 

How bout a compromise? Everyone that supports conscription can sign up for the draft, and the draft will be pulled from those who support conscription.

Theres no reason this shouldnt work (unless all those eligible for conscription are opposed to it, and all those not opposed to it are ineligible... ).

 

Germany's main issues are 1) Manpower due to it's extremely aged demographics and 2) An extremely inefficient and litigious procurement system wrapped in red tape. Perun covered the second point extremely thoroughly. Germany spends more in total dollar terms than France yet France manages to get a hell of a lot more equipment for their money (funding a vastly larger Navy, Air Force, Army, and nuclear deterrent) where as Germany's money buys hardly any new equipment and mostly pays salaries and a bloated bureaucracy.

Germany desperately needs to streamline its procurement process for better results and to make sure it stops taking 20-30 years to introduce a new system.

 

Some good videos by Perun on Germany's procurement problem.

 

23 million Germans are between ages of 18-40. If Finland can create a reserve of 900 000 out of population of 5 million, then Germans can create quite an army. History proves Germans are an organized nation when needed. Some say they are too organized in certain things, and since I have visited quite a few times, I can say there is some truth to it.

They know how to write a bill, as well as anyone else.

 

Good luck getting a reform bill passed given all the special interests. Really, take an hour to listen to the first video by Perun which I posted. It goes very indepth with a lot of fact.

 

I've suggested something similar. Make signing up for selective service voluntary (and include females) but only people who sign up for selective service are eligible for Student loans and grants.

 

They budgeted it, sure, but let us see if they actually results in spending especially procurement spending. Many have their doubts but we shall see.

 

If you give our bureaucrats a budget they will use it.