Serbs destroyed Yugoslavia - The Death of Yugoslavia

NATO started the war when they saw, that Albanians were losing ground, a bit like with Libya.

 

Croatia wanted to transfer the war from Croatian territory into Kosovo, and thats why they offered officers and other things to UCK.

Those are Jokes, All these years after the war and i havent seen any image with dead serbian civils or any Albanian massacre on normal people.
The Only thing Albanians killed was Serbian Army forces and meybe some Serbian polices in Kosovo.

 

Albanians lost ground at those territories where Civils were fighting with Winchesters
Go look the battles where KLA was,there things were more serious, and we have to remember that Kosova didn't had an Army like Croatians, KLA was a new organisation which peoples didnt had the idea what the war is.

 

Ok, but the war between Croatia and Serbia was over for years and the UCK did not stop.

These are not jokes for the people who got killed there and their families. Most of the victims were Albanians. So if they find graves with Albanian civilians in Kosovo killed during these times, chances are high, they have been killed by other Albanians. British propaganda won't tell us about it.

No.

 

Yes, there was a difference in armament.

Sure the NATO target Serbians crossing the border to Kosovo from the north, but what sid they do about Albanian fighters crossing the borders from the south? NATO at peace making? Yeah, sure ...

 

If the UCK didnt started the war Serbia and Croatia would have been still fighting in Political and Military ways.

You saying that Albanians killed Albanians in Kosovo War?

 

Why you look things in superficial way?, Get more deeper.
Albanians crossed the border to go and help Albanians,Serbians crossed the border to go and kill People and make another Srebrenica.
This is a big difference.

 

Bosnia conflict probably took more resources than Kosovo conflict.

Yes, Albanians killed Albanians, Albanians tortured Albanians and probably Albanians stole organs from Albanians to sell them during Kosovo War.

 

Albanians didn't care about helping Albanians at all, they were coming from Albania to kill or expell everyone, who did not agree with them. I'm not sure, who killed more Kosovo Albanians, Albanians, Serbs or the NATO. Kosovo Albanians had good reasons to be afraid of Albanians from Albania.

 

NEVER EVER!
NEVER AND EVER!
I wonder where do you read all this? Please tell me that website.

 

Again? Ok.

 

I dont know man but im suprised and shocked with these texts,They was in Albania to get the basic training of a soldier and they came in Kosovo.
They broke the border and they made battles with serbs,they won the freedom and everyone was back to his family to enjoy the freedom.
And let me tell you something, The peoples that came from Albania they was KOSOVO ALBANIANS and they were training in Albania for Kosovo war!
There wasn't Albanians from Albania in war of Kosovo!
Yes they was but a LOW NUMBER(30-60) And they was under the command of Kosovo Albanian officers.
Those massacres in Kosovo were made by Serbian army and there are facts and peoples that saw them doing this.


One question.
You have started to read Conspiracy Theories about Kosovo war or what is the Problem man?

 

Why it smells like serbo-russian-europian propaganda at that site??

 

Why did they speak a different dialect then?

http://emperors-clothes.com/interviews/ceda.htm

There were massacres from both sides and attrocities from NATO, too, that's why I said, I don't know, who killed most Kosovo Albanians during this time, Albanians, Serbs or NATO.

I could not even name a conspiracy theory about Kosovo.

 

What is Serbo-Russian-European propaganda at all?

 

Just like every language in this world, Even Albanian have 2 Dialects.
Tosk And Gheg.

There was massacred from both sides, but Albanians did the massacres on Soldiers and Serbs did them on Civilians, the reason why they massacred some Albanian families is to scare them and to make them to stop asking for Independence.

There are some stupid conspiracies form Serbs in Youtube, i thought you watched them.

 

The Serbs did not cause the collapse of Yugoslavia. That is a wrong thesis. Has it ever been proven that the Serbs were responsible for the collapse of Yugoslavia? This has not even been proven at the Hague tribunal. The Serbs were the only pro-Yugoslav nation in ex-Yugoslavia, while the other nations of the federation sought independence.
It were the Serbs who were mainly responsible for the creation of Yugoslavia after both world wars. So, it is naturally that the Serbs wanted to preserve Yugoslavia from disintegrating. Then, why would the Serbs want to destroy Yugoslavia, since they were pro-Yugoslav and benefited by the Yugoslavia's concept? The factor which really caused the disintegration of Yugoslavia were separatists. Separatists wanted to secede from Yugoslavia in an irregular and unlawful way. Slovenia, Croatia and later the Bosnian Muslims declared independence in a way which was opposed to the constitution. Unilaterally secessions were not allowed by the constitution, they were illegal. Slovenia, Croatia and Bosnia and Herzegovina unilaterally seceded from Yugoslavia. They committed the crime of secessionism which has been illegal. That caused the collapse of Yugoslavia.

 

I don't think you can afford to yourself,that kind of luxury trying to impose inexistent answers ! I don't remember saying NO !

Well, I do think you are quite contradictory and honestly, for someone who denies servian pogrom of expelling Swabians from Hungarian Vojvodina and Russian campaign of systematical rape of German women, I do not consider you as a objective contributor of conducting social dialogue ! And I consider it, completely correct, that someone who doesn't know his own history can not be taken as a serious when referring to issues regarding some specific region. e.g. Balkan !

You are so confused !

 

On 1 May 1985, Đorđe Martinović, a fifty-six-year-old resident of the Kosovo town of Gnjilane, arrived at the local hospital with a broken bottle wedged in his rectum. He claimed that he had been attacked by two Albanian-speaking men while he was working in his field. After being interviewed by a Yugoslav People's Army colonel, Martinović reportedly admitted that his injuries had been self-inflicted in a botched attempt at masturbation. Public investigators reported that "the prosecutor made a written conclusion from which it appears that the wounded performed an act of 'self-satisfaction' in his field, [that he] put a beer bottle on a wooden stick and stuck it in the ground. After that he sat 'on the bottle and enjoyed'." Community leaders in Gnjilane subsequently issued a statement describing his injuries as the "accidental consequences of a self-induced [sexual] practice."

Stane Dolanc -Minister of the Interior in the Yugoslav government declared :
"Slučaj Đorđa Martinovića je završen. Moja policija je utvrdila da se sam povredio i nema sudskog procesa... Đorđe je prvi srpski samuraj koji je nad sobom izvršio harikiri."

"Djordje Martinovic case is closed. My police has came to conclusion that he has hurt himself, and that there will not be any trial process.... Djordje is first serbian samuraj that committed harakiri on himself !

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Đorđe_Martinović

 

WHY COULD the parting in Yugoslavia--if it had to happen--not be achieved peacefully, through Western-style negotiation (like that, for example between Sweden and Norway in 1905) rather than through bloody conflict costing thousands of lives? As I reflect on this quesion, I keep returning to an incident from my personal experience that, to me at any rate, symbolizes and encapsulates the attitudes that have led to the present disaster. On May 1, 1985, a 59-year-old Serbian farmer by the name of Djordje Martinovic was found in a distreesed condition with a broken bottle up his anus in his own province of Serbia, one with a large ethnic Albanian majority. Almost overnight, this elderly man, who supplemented his farm income by working as a storekeeper for the Yugoslav Army in Gnjilane, became the center of a fierce controversy that quickly grew into a cause celebre.
According to reports claiming to be based on Mr. Martinovic's own evidence and published in Belgrade, Serbia's capital, Mr. Martinovic had been attacked from behind by a group of masked men speaking Albanian, who then allegedly tied him up and brutalized him. The other version, in Kosovo's Albanian-language press and in the media in some non-Serbian parts of Yugoslavia, was very different. According to that account, Mr. Martinovic was a homosexual who had suffered an accident while in the act of self-gratification and, in order to avoid bringing dishonor on himself and his family in a very old-fashioned society, decided to invent the alleged attack.

I arrived in Kosovo shortly thereafter while researching a story on the national question in Yugoslavia for The Economist and was one of the first Western correspondents to write about "the Martinovic affair." The atmosphere I found there reminded me of Kurosawa's famous film "Rashomon" I had seen while still living in Yugoslavia in the early 1950s, in which a single violent incident is told in several completely different versions. I wanted to talk to Mr. Martinovic but could not: he had been taken out of the hands of the Kosovo authorities, whisked off to the Yugoslav Army's Medical Academy in Belgrade and kept incommunicado there pending further clinical and psychiatric investigations.

Meanwhile ethnic Albanian officials in Pristina, Kosovo's capital, kept assuring me that the story of the attack was a complete fabrication and even provided me with graphic clinical details of the incident as recorded by the local Albanian doctors (including the exact size of the bottle). They argued that the Martinovic case was being exploited politically by the Serbian leaders in Belgrade as another argument in their campaign for the abolition of Kosovo's autonomy and its re-annexation by Serbia, on the grounds that this was the only way of protecting the local Serbs (by then 10 percent of the total population) from Albanian "terror." On the other hand, local Kosovo Serbs I talked to claimed to believe the attack version implicitly and interpreted the incident as another instance of the systematic Albanian campaign aimed at forcing the Kosovo Serbs to emigrate, leaving it to the Albanians. In Belgrade, meanwhile, the Kosovo farmer had become a hero to Serbian opinion as a martyr in the national cause. A famous Serbian painter not long afterwards made Mr. Martinovic the central figure of a crucifixion scene in a painting which, I was told, now adorns one of the rooms in the building of the Serbian Academy of Sciences in Belgrade.

FOUR YEARS AFTER this bizarre and gruesome incident, in June 1989, Serbia re-annexed Kosovo, thus regaining full control over its police and judiciary. Intriguingly, the Martinovic file remained closed. The new Serbian authorities have so far failed--to my knowledge anyway--to do what they might have been expected to do in such a highly publicized case. They have not reopened the investigation with a view to catching the alleged perpetrators, bringing them to justice and vindicating the old man's honor. This suggests that the attack theory might after all have been an anti-Albanian fabrication, as the local Albanians had claimed from the start. But, whatever the true facts of the case, they do not seem to matter any more--at least not to the present generation of Serbs. The martyrdom of Djordje Martinovic, in the highly stylized form of the crucifixion in the Academy of Sciences picture, has become part of the Serbs' vision of themselves as perpetual victims of cruel historical circumstances--an idea born in Kosovo more than 600 years ago.

It was in Kosovo Polje (the Field of Blackbirds), not far from where Djordje Martinovic suffered his mysterious humiliation, that on June 28, 1389 the Serbs suffered a decisive defeat at the hands of the Turks. They did not fight along--along-side them were Croatian and Hungarian nobles, as well as the local (also Christian) Albanians--but they still lost. That defeat at Kosovo sealed the fate of the Serbian state and ushered in five centuries of life under Ottoman rule. The Serbs' sense of national humiliation after Kosovo was particularly acute because at the time the memories were still fresh of their own short-lived kingdom which had spread over a large part of the Balkans. Life under the Ottoman Empire, involving as it did for the majority population what would nowadays be called collaboration with the enemy. For example, the main hero of Serbian folk poetry, Prince Marko (Kraljevic Marko), endowed in popular imagination with superhuman strength and extraordinary bravery as well as great cunning, was a historical figure--in fact a small feudal ruler who, like all the other Serbian Christian nobles, became the Turkish sultan's vassal after the Kosovo battle. In one of the Serbian folk ballads called "Kraljevic Marko i Musa Kesedzija," Marko is commissioned by the Turks to kill Musa, represented in the poem as a bandit but in fact an Albanian insurgent against Turkish rule. The necessity to collaborate with the enemy induced in the Serbs a strong sense of inferiority and a correspondingly powerful urge for a violent compensation, both of which are reflected in Serbian folk poetry (later discovered and much praised by the Grimm brothers and other German scholars of the Romantic era). Much of that poetry is so violent and sadistic that in schools, as I myself remember, it was taught in a severely bowdlerized form.

It was just short of 500 years after the battle of Kosovo, at the Congress of Berlin in 1878, that Serbia regained its independence, following it four years later, in 1882, with the proclamation of a monarchy. In the intervening centuries, the Serbs had turned their defeat at Kosovo into a powerful national myth--that of a virtuous, gallant victim undeservedly crushed by an overwhelmingly stronger army but certain to rise one day to a new greatness. It was one of several myths that the Serbs relied on to help them overcome the trauma of lost sovereignty and to compensate for the humiliations and deprivations of life under foreign rule. This acute sense of national grievance against what they perceived as an unkind fate gave the Serbs an all-encompassing alibi for the policy of territorial expansion embarked upon the first half of the nineteenth century. That sense of being absolved, on account of past suffering, from compliance with the usual norms of international behavior is one of the most important elements of Serbian political culture and behavior today. It provides an excuse for policies such as "ethnic cleansing," widely condemned by the rest of the world and based on the idea that Serbs must not be obliged to live "under" any other nation or even, as in Bosnia, to share a state with non-Serbs. Significantly, old Serb myths are particularly strong among the Serbs in Bosnia, most of whom live in sparsely populated mountain areas, with a tradition of singing folk ballads to the accompaniment of the gusle, the one-string fiddle. A recent BBC-TV documentary depicted Mr. Radovan Karadzic, leader of the Bosnian Serbs, and his men playing contemporary, strongly xenophobic versions of old folk ballads to the accompaniment of the gusle.
In the past several years the Serbs have been fed, through their state-controlled television and other media, a diet of hate for the neighboring peoples. Warnings of genocide allegedly in store for the Serbs in Bosnia, Croatia, Kosovo, and elsewhere were coupled with reminders of the sufferings, many of them only too real, inflicted on the Serbs in the past--as in the years between 1941 and 1945, under the murderous regime of Ante Pavelic in Croatia. But there was also a lot of propaganda about the dark anti-Serb activities of the "enemies of the Serbian people" operating out of Bonn, Vienna, Rome, Tirana, and other "anti-Serb" centers. Cases like that of the hapless Djordje Martinovic were manipulated to make the Serbs feel humiliated once again, as they had been under the Turks, and to make them demand revenge.

 

....
This propaganda campaign, masterminded by nationalist intellectuals in the Serbian Academy of Sciences in Belgrade and similar bodies--and indirectly helped by nationalist anti-Serb outbursts from places like Ljubljana and Zagreb--proved a brilliant success. State-owned Serbian television, which for the majority of the population is the chief source of information, played a role not unlike the gusle singers. The campaign delivered the Serbian people, both those in Serbia proper and those outside, into the hands of Mr. Milosevic, Serbia's leader since 1986, and his allies, the communist generals, in their quest for a Greater Serbia. Critical voices advocating a different course--what Serbia's small opposition likes to call the "European option"--were silenced, not least because the West seemed unable or unwilling to stop the aggression. The Serbian opposition's position today is not unlike that of the anti-Nazi German in, say, 1941 or 1942 when Hitler seemed to be invincible.

It is unlikely that the bid for Greater Serbia will succeed. It will take time, however, before it becomes clear--above all to the Serbs--that it has failed. Only when the majority of Serbs have freed themselves from the powerful grip of mythical thinking will it be possible for the democratization process to begin. It will be a long haul.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2751/is_n32/ai_14182722/

 

You simply made things up and when asked for a quote from your own source, you could not give one. Same old, same old ...

So you only take people seriously, who believe in your made up stories in the first place? This is probably part of your problem then.

I am? Do I make up stories here or do you?

 

I am beginning to feel flattered by the amount of wisdom you are attributing to me, when accusing me of making up things(sites, facts, true events), but on the other hand you seem to really have problems with perception. You see, for a "German" who denies his own history, sufferings and pogroms carried out against "your" people, I don't consider it as an insult.... but, still you should show some basic manners and culture to respect the victims, who as presented in this thread were killed by servs only because they belonged to other nationalities !

I think it is quite opposite, it is you who has so many issues !

Are you not ? Making up stories is a very hard accusation, but as I stated it before... nothing that comes from you (as a "true" German) makes me dissatisfied

Here you have some "terrorists" killed by servian police ! I think that they were very "professional" :
http://www.alb-net.com/warcrimes-img/abri.htm

http://books.google.com/books?id=oz...CCUQ6AEwAg#v=onepage&q=Delijaj family&f=false

p.s. if you a have serbian male friend nearby, take really good care to hide the bottles, cause they may accuse you for raping them... as presented above in "Martinovic case"

 

I said, you made up this part, because it's not written in the article.

You did not show the opposite, instead you made up another thing about me not being German. Sites, facts, true events? You should try to stay with the facts, instead of adding things you made up yourself. Wouldn't this be basic manners in a debate?

 

Brain malfunction can seriously compromise the logical thinking, hence producing deformed reality. All I asked from you was to respect the victims( I don't need your respect for me), which had dreams and wishes of having prosperous life ! The servian army (regular one), paramilitary units and regular police did everything possible to end their dreams and hopes.

YOU as a citizen of a country ruled by ex- SSSR , brainwashed till the bone, can not represent any serious partner on conducting positive verbal conflict.
I mean I laugh whenever I read your comments... you know, for someone who denies Swabian expelling by serbs who occupied Vojvodina from Hungary, and massive rapes carried out on German women by the side of Red Army, I think it is a quite commodity from your side to try and give us "lectures" for a war that took place in Balkan ! Therefore, your comments are complete joke