“Conservatives take aim at tenure for University professors”

“Conservatives take aim at tenure for university professors”

“It’s a sentiment being echoed by conservative officials in red states across the country. The indefinite academic appointments that come with tenure have faced review from lawmakers or state oversight boards in at least half a dozen states”

“The trend reflects how conservative scrutiny of instruction related to race, gender and sexuality has extended from schools to higher education.”

“Attacks on higher education have been fueled by a shift in how conservatives see colleges and universities, said Jeremy Young, of the free-expression group PEN America. The share of Republicans and independent-leaning Republicans who said higher education was having a negative effect on the country”

“They’ve latched onto the idea that many totalitarian regimes have done over the years, which is if you can stop students from learning about ideas that a political party in power disagrees with, that is one way to stop those ideas from existing in the society at all,” said Andrew Gothard, president of United Faculty of Florida.”

https://apnews.com/article/politics-...bae3744e8ff51d

So is this an attempt to control what is taught? stymieing free thought? retribution? or even a disguised attempt at cost control?

Regardless of the questions, conservatives apparently fail grasp that tenure is an earned job benefit, it isn’t given easily, and most college faculty are not tenured. In fact, the chance at tenure is a way schools attract top talent and raise the reputation of the institution, especially those pursuing top students and research monies

 

Without tenure, good luck getting qualified people who are willing to go through a lengthy education for getting PhD, followed by 2-3 postdocs, followed by an Assistant Professor position with no job safety and low pay, which can be terminated any moment one loses funding. I know that I would advise any student against such a career path.

 

what is the old saying???

those who can.............do

those who can't...............teach

Perhaps it's high time to get back to instructing as opposed to pontificating within universities

I'd also suggest looking into text books that are "authored" by the professor teaching the class

 

I have to disagree. Tenure protects ineffective teachers and places an undue burden on parents, students, and tax payers. Performance based pay would give students more value for the money. Have you ever heard of the rubber room teachers?

 

Even France sees our higher education as a problem.

Will American Ideas Tear France Apart? Some of Its Leaders Think So


PARIS — The threat is said to be existential. It fuels secessionism. Gnaws at national unity. Abets Islamism. Attacks France’s intellectual and cultural heritage.

The threat? “Certain social science theories entirely imported from the United States,’’ said President Emmanuel Macron.

French politicians, high-profile intellectuals and journalists are warning that progressive American ideas — specifically on race, gender, post-colonialism — are undermining their society. “There’s a battle to wage against an intellectual matrix from American universities,’’ warned Mr. Macron’s education minister.

Emboldened by these comments, prominent intellectuals have banded together against what they regard as contamination by the out-of-control woke leftism of American campuses and its attendant cancel culture.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/09/world/europe/france-threat-american-universities.html

 

First rule of authoritarianism, get rid of educated people, as they make tyranny more difficult.

 

I thought the first rule was to disarm the populace, control the press and speech, and deliver non stop propaganda to school kids.

It’s funny how you imply the right is the party of authoritarianism as the left creates laws and regulations banning what people can do and mandating what people must do.

 

Oh, totally. Totally.

 

I think you're mistaking education for indoctrination.

 

Those conservatives have a very valid complaint about how universities and colleges and a large percentage -- predominant in the social sciences -- of professors are pushing and "teaching" leftist agendas as opposed to educating students.. However, tenure itself is not the culprit. There are very valid reasons for professors to receive tenure as a protection of their independence and freedom to teach. Doing away with tenure would lose its desirable benefits and would help the conservatives' complaint very little. It's the universities that hired the professor in the first place and granted tenure, so why anybody believes the university administrations now want to get rid of them totally escapes me. The only place to fix the problem, if it is even fixable, is with the administrations, not the tenured professors.

For the record, I am a strong constitutional conservative.

 

Pretty sure I am not.

Cambodia, Venezuela, get rid if educators and education, stupid people are easier to lead.

 

Stupid people think boys can be girls.

Degrees in gender studies and African pottery is not considered being educated, and look how easy it is to lead them.

 

Which is exactly what the authoritarians say when they try to censor education.

 

Hear
Hear

 

I disagree.

There are a plethora of fields of work someone with a gender studies degree can go into. Social work, human resources, etc.

I am not aware of African pottery being a major at any college. Can you please cite one?

 

All other professions fact the same why should educators be different. Do a good job, bring students to the school to learn from you and produce results you don't need some guaranty. I never had one I had to me the performance goals of my employers and keep my/their customers happy and believing they were receiving something of value.

 

If the promise of 100% ironclad job security, no matter what, is their only motivation to work in academia , then they have no business working in academia.

Do tradesmen have tenure? No, but they spend a lifetime working and become experts in their trades anyway.

I've never had a job that I couldn't get fired from. So, you want see this middle class working man giving them any sympathy.

 

First rule of authoritarianism. Indoctrinate the young in government run or subsidized schools.
IMO, all of the government funding now pouring into our failed education system should be transferred to vested individual accounts controlled by the parents and guardians of children.

Pink Floyd got it right.

"We don't need no education.
We don't need no thought control.
No dark sarcasm in the classroom.
Teacher, leave those kids alone.
Hey, Teacher, leave those kids alone!
All in all it's just another brick in the wall.
All in all you're just another brick in the wall."
Another Brick In The Wall, Part II

 

Other professions do not face the same. They can get a bachelors degree and then start making good money. In academia, once you have your bachelors degree, you have to do five years as a graduate student (they make often <$30,000 per year), and then you have to do 3-6 years as a postdoc (I basically made minimum wage as a postdoc at Cornell 30 years ago, when accounting for my 70 hour work week). After that, if you are lucky, you get a tenure track position, and after six grueling years, you might be lucky to get tenure. By that point, people are either burned out, or they are workaholics. Once you have tenure, as in my case in STEM, I have to run a lab, make payroll etc., get funding.. Not so different from other jobs in terms of responsibilities. Of course, to an outsider it might look like faculty teach 8 hours of class a week and otherwise sit on their behind doing nothing. This is far form the truth.

Again, would I recommend this path to my students? Only to the most dedicated.

 

Have you ever tried becoming a welder? How about a crane operator?...lol

Hell, water well drillers have to complete a 24 month apprenticeship before they can take their water well driller's exam, to get their water well driller's license. The guys who drill geothermal wells have to have same license in most states. Geothermal wells are part of all that green energy stuff.

Every profession has to pay their dues and obtain more credentials to climb the ladder. Academia can do the same thing.

Professors work 8 hours a day? The hell they do...lol. Even if they do, I worked 11.5 today. That ain't ****.

 

Have you ever tried getting tenure? My guess is NO. So, why do you have to put down people who have sacrificed a lot going through the process when you know nothing about it? Does it make you feel better?

I am sure being a welder is a hard job. I don't feel a need to beat up on welders, I am sure they are fine and hard-working people.

 

So you are saying that any shcmuck off the street can teach anything? that there doesn't need to be any prepatory work? experience means nothing?

And with the text book comment you are in favor of the State controlling content, not what I think most would view as a well rounded university level education

 

We are discussing university level teachers here, there aren't many "rubber rooms" at the college level

And sure there are some who hide behind tenure, but as I said, it is not easy to acquire, and it is a motivator for top talent to seek a position at the school

 

Why is it anytime education comes up everyone on the right automatically assumes that all teachers are propagandizing students in woke cultures, whatever the hell that is suppose to be?

 

Kinda like, "I love the uneducated?"