⚡Unsold electric cars are piling up on dealer lots⚡

0 - 60 is an unimportant metric.

 

Electric vehicle skepticism from auto workers puts Biden in a tough spot
As the UAW negotiates union contracts with Ford, General Motors and Stellantis, it’s putting President Biden in an awkward position as his love of unions competes with a green energy push.
By Jeanne Whalen

 

Now tell us how many thousands of dollars it's going to take to replace the batteries.

 

Sure performance doesn't mean anything.

 

If you cannot afford one then don’t buy one.
We already have one EV and are about to add another.

My company is also looking to replace all of our manager vehicles to EV’s along with adding a commercial solar roof at the office. Granted we will be doing the install but we are looking at a return around the 6 year mark.

 

It's irrelevant to normal, safe driving.

 

Sometimes they've dropped in price due to improvements and scale of economics. Sometimes they've dropped in price because they've become obsolete trash. My first HDTV was a short tube projection TV with a tuner and multiple HDMI ports. I'm certain the replacement version of it would be cheaper but no one would buy it. We've moved on but also in moving on that old TV likely has parts that are in a landfill.

Finally we don't often consider a car just another consumer good. We aren't financing them for 6 years because they're just another tablet or TV.

They do have maintenance costs but often they can go well beyond ten years and those maintenance costs aren't basically totaling the vehicle just beyond that timeframe.

I mean you'd easily understand this if I said I'd have low costs for the ICE car but at 200k miles the engine and transmission will be toast and their "maintenance" will mean they are replaced. That is what is being discussed for EV's. Most I know seem used for very low mileage. On the flip side I see lots of high mileage Prius's as an example. If a car can last ten years in terms of battery and then the replacement cost of the battery means the car is done, at 12-15k miles per year that would only be 120k-150k miles on the car. Many good ICE cars are just getting started at that sort of mileage. Good Japanese brands will easily double that.

Well if we are discussing people making their own choices that's fine but much of this market is being driven in the wrong direction and to a single solution by government intervention. If you've only got one choice and it isn't the best one, that leads to a suboptimal outcome.

 

Would the return be 6 years if the tax credits were not included? What sort of work and what sort of mileage yearly on those cars?

 

Unlikely, we are getting fed state and local rebates

Our vehicles that are used for leasing and management put around 35k - 45k miles per year. We can’t make the numbers work yet for our maintenance team because they have to travel further (and trucks are outrageously more expensive than their gas counterparts)

 

Make up any excuse you wish, EVs are the better and more efficient vehicle.

 

FYI, have you actually priced a new motor and transmission.

 

Yes. My point is at that point the vehicle is totaled and scrapped. The same will be true of many EV's when they need new batteries.

https://www.makeuseof.com/how-much-cost-replace-tesla-battery/

The cost of each module is $5-7000 and current models us 4-5 modules. If you had to replace the entire pack that would be $20k-35k. Obviously the car would be scrapped at that stage.

I hope Elon is correct with all his claims about mileage, age and batteries. I'm simply noting that noting you won't have to replace an alternate or water pump within a certain timeframe is pointless when the one big part which is up to 80% of the value of the entire car can fail instantly past a certain age and require basically scrapping the vehicle.

My own child has a Prius and we had to replace the battery pack in it. We are hoping he gets many more years of use out of it but his Prius is older, the pack smaller and many third parties are familiar with and able to service and repair the packs. That said it was a $1000 repair with a warranty and we hope the cells all remain strong because just one or two of them going bad can cause a fault with the entire battery.

 

Electric cars? I don’t want one. Every day I would have to worry about where to charge the thing? How long will it take to charge it? Can I take a trip with it when I would like to drive 400+ miles in a day? That’s what I had to do when I drove from my home in Massachusetts to Delaware where my parents lived over each holiday when I was young.

I don’t want something I have to baby to get where I need to go. All I do now is pull up to a gas station and fill up in a few minutes. I don’t want a “woke car.” I am old enough to avoid it. My next new car will probably be my last. So I don’t have to buy this woke crap.

 

To most people being able to go 0-60 in 5 seconds or less is MEANINGLESS!!!! Seriously. When does that matter day to day? 7-8 secs is plenty of pep for 95% of people. Solid performance matters and many ICE vehicles are squeezing more out of less.

 

IDK. I have heard the electric trucks are into the 6 digit price range now. You'll never see me in one.

 

Wrong. EVs strength is at no load. Yes, they accelerate quickly but joy riding has no practical benefit.

ICE vehicles shine at load- i.e, doing actual work.

EVs are OK if all you do is drive to work and back, assuming you don't live too far from work. ICE vehicles do actual work- all kinds of work. Anywhere. If you want to build something in the middle of nowhere, you need ICE vehicles- one of them with a honking fuel tank on the back that can be used to fill the other vehicles even if you're a hundred miles from a gas station. You ain't going to be doing that with a EV (assuming you've got an IQ).

An apples to apples comparison: my F150 has a 5.0L V8 with a 36 gallon gas tank. Range unloaded is 650+ miles on a full tank. That will take me and my family from our home in the Shenandoah Valley of Virginia to my Mom's house in Detroit and then about halfway back before having to fuel up. And if I'm pulling an 8000 lb. trailer, I'll probably get at least 500 miles of range. That's home to Detroit and back to at least Toledo before filling up. And filling up takes maybe 15 minutes.

A comparable F150 Lightning can be upgraded to a maximum range of 300 miles won't make it much past Cleveland unloaded. The same 8000 lb. trailer reduces the range to about 70 or 80 miles. That's iffy that it will make it out of Maryland. And how long does it take to recharge? Depends on what kind of charger you can find. Somewhere from half an hour to 2 hours. Maybe.

No, EVs are one trick ponies. But if you believe you might have any practical use beyond getting back and forth to work, you need an ICE.

 

I hope Elon is correct with all his claims about mileage, age and batteries
This info is in the front page news when it comes to this technology. A quick web search, and you will find more Elons.

 

The main thing that concerns me is to be able to go from 50 to 80 with a tap of the accelerator when I need to pass a slow moving truck on the freeway. I get that with my old CT-6 Cadillac which has a 3.0 liter twin turbo engine. I have no idea what the 0 to 60 number is although I think Consumer Reports said the car was quite fast. It supposedly has a little over 400 horsepower.

 

That depends on ones traffic. BTW, that performance comes with torque too. EVs don't need transmissions because of their efficiency. ICEs need to build torque with RPMs.

 

Yup, horribly expensive, like $29,235 maybe? https://www.edmunds.com/nissan/leaf/

Ford Escape ICE - $29,448 maybe?
https://www.edmunds.com/ford/escape/

 

From what I’ve heard, when the battery goes, you may as well trash the EV car. It’s too expensive to replace.

 

That is only due to battery limits, that technology is breaking through, it is in the news every day. An EV is magnitudes more efficient than an ICE.

 

Nope. Inadequate range. Charging time. Towing cuts range. Heating/cooling cuts rance.

 

Sure a 4-1 power stroke is more efficient.

 

More capable than the EV.