Abortion- "It is her body!" But is it?

Murder is the illegal killing of a person. A fetus is not a person.

A human fetus is human. It is not LEGALLY a person. It is not a baby. Abortion is legal. Abortion is not murder.

It's good to use the correct words for things ...you might be confused if I said the giraffe drove the ice cream cone to the piñata....so I use the correct words for the subjects...


Do YOU think another person should be able to force you to give your kidney/heart/liver or your life itself to sustain their life?

 

So you brought your failed arguments here...

The issue has been resolved as has been pointed out to you several times....abortion is legal... the issue is only raging with you and those on the Anti-Choice Right are mighty quiet since the Donald is PRO-CHOICE....... Those "precious" "babies" aren't so precious when political power is at stake


Gosh, now there's an elephant in the room ....

 

And how many times have you started this discussion, and within a couple of posts rather than address the real issue or attempt to discuss you resort to ranting "Its the law!" "Its not a baby!", the only one of your rants that you have not done in this thread (yet) is "If you don't like abortion then don't have one!".

When you have a real argument, let us know.

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Se post #56.

And you don't find the obvious fallacy in your post in the fact that Trump is the Republican candidate and I am still arguing the abortion issue? You really don't have any basis for a discussion at all, do you?

 

No, you come into this thread with your lame pathos and references to the law (as if the law is synonymous to absolute morals and reality) In this thread we discuss what is life and not "when should the jurudical limit be set for abortion?" You clearly are inherintly incapable of that. Back to the Abortion-forum and discuss your laws and regulations. Shoo!

How simple?

Up to you to decide.

You still just burp unsophisticated crap we all heard trillion times before. You have no place in this thread.

PS. You seem ti have a nearly perverted fascination over abortion as you onky seem to pop up whenever and wherever the topic is discussed. Gross!

 

Well sure it is her body. But that person, that fetus inside her womb, is not her body. It is a unique individual. This is what rationality, logic, reason dictates. But if you do not want to have that child, and you want to legally be able to kill it, murder it, you have to create some kind of justification, so that it is not murder. And this argument, it is her body, is one of the arguments they pulled out of their arses, and not their brains.

Abortion for convenience, abortion for birth control, when we have great and very effective birth control that can be used before they get pregnant, should mean that abortions would be so rare. Just when the birth control failed to work. Which is very rare if it is used like it is supposed to be used. So, the number of abortions we have, means we have that many utterly irresponsible people, who because of irresponsibility have to murder another person. Abortion should be legal, but her tubes should be tied as the abortion is done, so that she doesn't get to act irresponsibly to murder her second child. IN the interest of saving human life, which should be what any society should value the most, above all other things. For when a society does not, then human life in general, yours, loses value.

 

Fetus means young child in Latin.

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If you're an atheist then you have no God except science and the Big Bang.

 

It's a separate body at conception. Are you part of the car's body if your inside it? Is food in your stomach apart of your body? If it has separate DNA then its a body of its own.

 

This argument is one of where someone draws an arbitrary line, a manmade mental creation, of when a person is a person. But it is a human life once the fertilized egg begins to develop into a human being. If you kill it, you took away a human life. Whether you call what you killed a person or not. Now, if you are gonna kill another human being, it would be less cruel to do it before it knew it was being killed. So, if that helps your conscience, and allows you to take another human life, and that developing human, if alive, is a human life, then more power to you.

We always create the arbitrary lines when we want to do something that otherwise we would not do. We intellectualize it, make it abstract, but a human life is still being killed. So, you must then irrationalize your way out of it, and that is what the pro killers do.

 

The deciding factor is that the unborn child is human, cancer isn't.

 

The linguistic definition of person is, more or less, an actual self. If the fetus is a "person" it then is, by definition, alive too. A person can be dead too, but every person was once alive. If we instead of "personhood" talk about "life", we first have to define "life", and the easiest way to define life is with the word consciousness. Then we have to ask us, in order to know if the fetus is a life, is to ask ourselves; does it have a consciousness? The natural follow-up question is what is consciousness?

This is very difficult as you can see.

 

What is or isn't considered murder is how the mother to be holds the living thing in her body and that will determine it's legal rights. That's about all the law is concerned with.
She and she alone, determines it's legal status in the eyes of the law.

 

Explaining it to you would be pearls before swine

 

Anthropologist Mary Douglas talks about anomalies and strategies for handling these (redifine, eliminate, stigmatise, mystify) in her famous work, "Purity and Danger" and it is not inappropriate to gring up her theorisations in this discuss.

In many ways, the fetus can be seen as an anomaly; it is, but at the same time is not. The unwanted child is "matter out of place"- when it is wanted it is alive, but when unwanted it is seen as being neither alive nor dead, butbsomething inbetween.

Wanted pregnancy=normal
Unwanted pregnancy=anomaly

To handle the anomalious "unwanted child" we then have to redefine it as a "ball of cells" to, in that way, justify the elimination of it (normally such act is "murder" but you cannot murder what is not alive).

 

A baby is a person. End of topic.
Legally and by dictionary definition.
A fetus however, is not a person. Legally or by dictionary definition.

I know you won't understand the difference, but maybe some will.

 

If we want to get even more etymological, "pregnancy" derrives from Latin word of praegnans which means "with child".

If you think the fetus is not a child it is contradictionary to use the word "pregnant" too.

 

This is neither the linguistics- nor the juridical forums though.

 

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fetus
In the USA we speak English. Mostly.
And we use English definitions. So what it once was in Latin is irrelevant to the topic in the USA.

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No, one is not part of the car's body when inside it.
Is a watch a part of your body if you wear one? No, it's not.

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Are you saying cells inside a human aren't human?

 

Doesn't matter. For whether it is legal or illegal to abort is of judicial concern.
And linguistics is used to define legal terms.

You may as well discuss the amount of green cheese on the moon philosophically. Same result.

 

Um. This is the Internet. Not everyone is from America here.

That is a very interesting question imo.

Cells are not human, but they are life.

 

But 90% are here in America, in this forum.
What you do in your country has no effect on our country and you can have your own abortion laws.

If cells are not human, isn't the fetus, up to a certain point, nothing but cells?

Also, abortions occur naturally.

 

OH. MY. GOD. Again, I read the word "law".

I do not think a fetus is a human, but I am very close to being cinvinced ut is a life. All cells are alive. One could even argue every life is "nothing but cells", so sure.

What do you mean?

 

Fine, if circles is what you want to talk, have at it.
Discussing something philosophically will never result in anything, ever. At some point it means something or it doesn't.
And abortion means something, so a philosophical discussion about it is pointless.

 

Firstly. We seem to have different views on the purpose of a discussion; to me it is not about convincing the opponent he is wrong nor is it about finding "the absolute truth" (what is that anyways?), but rather is it about coming as close to truth as possible. Secondly, if you have such antipathic opinions about philosophy, why even bother coming here? Lastly, we do not discuss "abortion" at all in here. We discuss life.

Shoo!