Abortion- "It is her body!" But is it?

Because of a moronic law. Did you know that same law exempts abortions?

 

The question, then, is what reason you have for believing what you've heard.

Actually that's closer to sapience. Here's how OED defines sentient:

sentient
adjective

Able to perceive or feel things.
‘she had been instructed from birth in the equality of all sentient life forms’​

So out of sight, out of mind, eh?

 

"It's not a baby" is common sense. You are the one ignoring the elephant in the room by pretending that a fetus, or embryo, or zygote, is already a baby. If you are right, a pregnant woman can take a night off and leave her fetus with the baby sitter. If she can't do that, then the fetus is not a baby yet (just to point out one difference between fetus and baby).

 

Perhaps you can explain why they needed special laws to address the unwanted termination of a pregnancy? Laws already exist to cover babies, so that must mean the people who wrote those laws acknowledge that a fetus is NOT a baby. So Fox has been right all along.

 

My distinction is separate from criminal actions. We are a lower form of life because we legalize the killing of innocent human life.

 

Try me.

 

Never said I wasn't biased on this topic. We all are after all. Doesn't matter what one's position is on abortion since one will always find a way to justify one's beliefs.

 

My point is to call the fetus a child or baby isn't mispepresenting it.

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My point exactly. It's a separate entity with its own characteristics. Just like the unborn.

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No I'm saying the combination of the egg and sperm is a human being.

 

Suppose for some reason you ate a live fish. Is that fish apart of your body? Suppose it attaches to you some kind of way is it apart of your body? It's still a separate entity that is dependant on the mother.

 

So causing the death of a fetus is not a crime, since it's not a person.

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Why do we need special laws when someone else causes a fetus to stop growing?

 

When my mother was preggers out of wedlock 50 years ago it was regarded as a heinous social crime and nobody would have minded if she'd had an abortion.
But as the foetus in question,I might have minded..

 

LOL so you think you using an incorrect word to describe something is "semantics" ... great I can call you anything I want, after all it's just semantics. Perhaps you should research what semantics is. To suggest that correcting your wrong usage of the word abortion is semantics is simply you trying to evade that incorrect usage. Anti-abortion people have done this before with the word 'baby' by consistently using it to describe a fetus they have managed to force it into the debate as the "normal" word to use, when in reality it is not. The whole purpose being to promote their emotional bias onto others.

Humans do kill innocents .. how many have died as a result of conflicts the US are involved in .. including pregnant women and children ... but is that ok to you because it's just "collateral damage"?

 

Consent ... Perhaps you can find a case where a woman has been charged with the murder of her own fetus?

The whole idea of UVVA type laws is to enhance the consent of the female, after all surely the greatest violation of a woman's consent and autonomy is to injure/kill her and kill something that she has decided to keep.

 

In the context of the debate subject . .yes it is misrepresenting it .. would you accept being called a child in a debate, after all a child is a human being and so are you.

correct and as a separate entity it must gain separate consent (like any other separate entity) to use the females body .. or do you believe that consent can be transferred between people without the agreement of the person who gave the consent?

Except it isn't, A human being is defined as "A man, woman, or child of the species Homo sapiens, distinguished from other animals by superior mental development, power of articulate speech, and upright stance." .. does a single cell fertilized ovum meet the criteria .. no it doesn't.

 

I do not like the 'its her body' argument because the child is owned by the father as well. So if a father wants the female to have an abortion then he should have equal rights to push for that. It is unfair that society tells women that they are the ones that can make the final decision on aborting a child just because the child is growing in her belly.

I do not think that fathers should have to pay for unwanted children. If a female has a baby against the wishes of the father then the father should have no legal responsibilities to the child, even if it is proven that he is the father.

 

It’s not “treated” in the medical sense, as something bad to be cured. I guess we could say it’s “managed”. The fact remains that it’s a different medical situation to any illness or injury (just as many of those illnesses and injuries are different to each other). There’s a reason we have specialists in these areas.

 

Just how does that have any relevance to abortion?

 

Abortion does not in any way deal with a Baby or Child and neither parent "Owns" anything. The mother owns her own body obviously, and a fetus resides within it....it is nonetheless a "Fetus" living inside the body she "Owns". The father has no rights to her body any more than YOU have a right to MINE. Once a Baby or Child becomes unattached to HER body we can deal with what the father of it has rights to.

 

Because the Unborn Victims of Violence Act makes killing a fetus a crime. And yes, if a woman's choice in being pregnant or not is taken away by a violent criminal (and only criminals WOULD take away a woman's CHOICE) that's a crime.

 

Oh, OK, buy I doubt you're going to stop all the legal wars, legal murder by police, legal corporate greed, and legal bad health care policies so the innocent will continue to die...

 

It’s all about my assertion that pregnancy is a unique situation with considerations that don’t apply to any other medical condition. It was in support of my assertion that abortion requires additional consideration beyond that of any other medical decision. Note that I’m not suggestion any conclusions to that consideration, only that has to be (can’t not be) taken.

 

You're defending abortion with timing as if before birth is not killing human life. I'm equating killing of human life after birth with abortion. Correcting the word doesn't matter, both are killing innocent human life.

 

There are lots of crimes that do not involve action against a person. If I have property where I am building a house, and you burn down the potential house I am building, you can be charged with a crime (arson). Having a law in place to punish a person for destroying the fetus I was building does not prove that fetus was already a baby. In fact, since laws were already in place to protect the newborn, it proves you acknowledge the fetus is NOT a baby yet so it does not qualify for the protection of those laws that have been in place for hundreds of years.

The UVVA laws may be needed because a woman who WANTS to have a baby is injured more by the destruction of her fetus than a woman who wants to have an abortion. Therefore the law provides for additional punishment (which might be equivalent to the punishment for murder) in that case because it provides some justice for the woman (or her family if she was killed in the attack) and discourages violent people from attacking pregnant women in the future.

I note that you did not answer my question. Can YOU explain why any pro-life legislators would push for UVVA laws if they believe the fetus is already a baby, and thus covered by hundreds of years of existing laws against murder? If not, I assume you agree that Fox was right and the fetus is NOT a baby.

 

I don't know what point you're trying to make, maybe it's that ""male denigrating pregnancy to be nothing much at all " crap.

Well, there's a reason women consult with DOCTORS when they are pregnant.

And here's some reasons why. They are INJURIES and ILLNESSES:

Normal, frequent or expectable temporary side effects of pregnancy:


•exhaustion (weariness common from first weeks)
•altered appetite and senses of taste and smell
•nausea and vomiting (50% of women, first trimester)
•heartburn and indigestion
•constipation
•weight gain
•dizziness and light-headedness
•bloating, swelling, fluid retention
•hemmorhoids
•abdominal cramps
•yeast infections
•congested, bloody nose
•acne and mild skin disorders
•skin discoloration (chloasma, face and abdomen)
•mild to severe backache and strain
•increased headaches
•difficulty sleeping, and discomfort while sleeping
•increased urination and incontinence
•bleeding gums
•pica
•breast pain and discharge
•swelling of joints, leg cramps, joint pain
•difficulty sitting, standing in later pregnancy
•inability to take regular medications
•shortness of breath
•higher blood pressure
•hair loss or increased facial/body hair
•tendency to anemia
•curtailment of ability to participate in some sports and activities
•infection including from serious and potentially fatal disease
(pregnant women are immune suppressed compared with non-pregnant women, and are more susceptible to fungal and certain other diseases)
•extreme pain on delivery
•hormonal mood changes, including normal post-partum depression
•continued post-partum exhaustion and recovery period (exacerbated if a c-section -- major surgery -- is required, sometimes taking up to a full year to fully recover)

Normal, expectable, or frequent PERMANENT side effects of pregnancy:


•stretch marks (worse in younger women)
•loose skin
•permanent weight gain or redistribution
•abdominal and vaginal muscle weakness
•pelvic floor disorder (occurring in as many as 35% of middle-aged former child-bearers and 50% of elderly former child-bearers, associated with urinary and rectal incontinence, discomfort and reduced quality of life -- aka prolapsed utuerus, the malady sometimes badly fixed by the transvaginal mesh)
•changes to breasts
•increased foot size
•varicose veins
•scarring from episiotomy or c-section
•other permanent aesthetic changes to the body (all of these are downplayed by women, because the culture values youth and beauty)
•increased proclivity for hemmorhoids
•loss of dental and bone calcium (cavities and osteoporosis)
•higher lifetime risk of developing Altzheimer's
•newer research indicates microchimeric cells, other bi-directional exchanges of DNA, chromosomes, and other bodily material between fetus and mother (including with "unrelated" gestational surrogates)

Occasional complications and side effects:


•complications of episiotomy
•spousal/partner abuse
•hyperemesis gravidarum
•temporary and permanent injury to back
•severe scarring requiring later surgery
(especially after additional pregnancies)
•dropped (prolapsed) uterus (especially after additional pregnancies, and other pelvic floor weaknesses -- 11% of women, including cystocele, rectocele, and enterocele)
•pre-eclampsia (edema and hypertension, the most common complication of pregnancy, associated with eclampsia, and affecting 7 - 10% of pregnancies)
•eclampsia (convulsions, coma during pregnancy or labor, high risk of death)
•gestational diabetes
•placenta previa
•anemia (which can be life-threatening)
•thrombocytopenic purpura
•severe cramping
•embolism (blood clots)
•medical disability requiring full bed rest (frequently ordered during part of many pregnancies varying from days to months for health of either mother or baby)
•diastasis recti, also torn abdominal muscles
•mitral valve stenosis (most common cardiac complication)
•serious infection and disease (e.g. increased risk of tuberculosis)
•hormonal imbalance
•ectopic pregnancy (risk of death)
•broken bones (ribcage, "tail bone")
•hemorrhage and
•numerous other complications of delivery
•refractory gastroesophageal reflux disease
•aggravation of pre-pregnancy diseases and conditions (e.g. epilepsy is present in .5% of pregnant women, and the pregnancy alters drug metabolism and treatment prospects all the while it increases the number and frequency of seizures)
•severe post-partum depression and psychosis
•research now indicates a possible link between ovarian cancer and female fertility treatments, including "egg harvesting" from infertile women and donors
•research also now indicates correlations between lower breast cancer survival rates and proximity in time to onset of cancer of last pregnancy
•research also indicates a correlation between having six or more pregnancies and a risk of coronary and cardiovascular disease

Less common (but serious) complications:

•peripartum cardiomyopathy
•cardiopulmonary arrest
•magnesium toxicity
•severe hypoxemia/acidosis
•massive embolism
•increased intracranial pressure, brainstem infarction
•molar pregnancy, gestational trophoblastic disease
(like a pregnancy-induced cancer)
•malignant arrhythmia
•circulatory collapse
•placental abruption
•obstetric fistula





More permanent side effects:
•future infertility
•permanent disability
•death.

 

50 years ago your mother sure was in a pickle. She was only human but pregnant without a husband, a "heinous" social crime, worse than a man screwing women and getting them pregnant , MUCH worse..

Yes, people would have minded if she had an abortion, they would've castigated her for that, too!

Women had no choice, bear a kid out of wedlock and be scorned, or find some dirty crapass place to have an abortion.

And don't be silly, as a fetus you would never have known if you were aborted.