Abortion: The Facts

No, the 'ignore' function is where you put trolls.

 

Where is your scientific evidence that pregnancy and childbirth are not dangerous?

I didn't bother looking at a link called LIFEnews. There's too much ACCURATE SCIENTIFIC proof that pregnancy and childbirth cause injury and even death and IS not safer than abortion.

Who the hell are you to teach women anything and why only women??? Women have the right to do anything with their bodies they please JUST LIKE YOU DO.


And the ignore function is something to HIDE behind.... you must use it a lot...

 

What's the matter? These questions too INCONVENIENT for you to answer???

 

The human race. You know....us. The ones who created science in the first place.

Don't be afraid of LIFE. There are useful links there.

I think men should give and receive a commitment before having procreational sex otherwise keep it zipped up. It requires men to control their hormonal urges. They should be taught to respect women as equal but different where each has complimentary strengths and weaknesses. Men or not 'just like' women and women are not 'just like' men.

I do hide behind it because sometimes I can't help myself and I get lured into a time wasting argument with some useless troll. Actually I only have a couple of trolls jailed in my ignore cell. I'm thinking of expanding though....Interested?

 

No, I have no fear of your posts, they can be ignored or demolished easily.

To your comment about the human race ...you're another one who hasn't noticed that since it 's beginning the human race has had sex, wisely and unwisely and isn't about to stop.

 

Comprehensive sex ed teaches that abstinence is best, but they ARE going to do it anyway, at some point. Studies show that 95% of Americans engage in premarital sex. They need to know how to protect themselves from STDs and
pregnancy when they do become sexually active. Keeping kids ignorant does harm them.

The statistics speak for themselves, and you have seen that endless list of pregnancy/childbirth complications. There is no way a simple medical abortion or a 15 minute surgical procedure can be more dangerous. No thinking person could believe that, and I don't believe you do, either.

Every minute of every day, somewhere in the world, a woman dies from complications related to pregnancy or childbirth. In the US, 650 women die from pregnancy complications every year.

"Bearing a child is still one of the most dangerous things a woman can do. It’s the sixth most common cause of death among women age 20 to 34 in the United States."
http://www.slate.com/articles/healt...d_maternal_mortality_in_the_20th_century.html

No, that is yet another pro-life lie. Reardon is a notorious anti-abortion propagandist. His claims are not credible.
http://publiceye.org/magazine/v20n2/chamberlain_politicized_science.html

You don't regard sperm or eggs as significant life, but at the instant of fusion, in your opinion, they are suddenly significant life, with more rights than any post-birth person. I, along with most people, believe the status of the zef grows as the pregnancy progresses.

That's what abortion bans do, either that, or force women to be criminals.

Wrong, you are adamantly against providing women with free or easily accessible birth control.

Why, because I don't want women to be lied to about the reality of pregnancy and childbirth? Pro-choicers advocate free or easily accessible birth control to reduce unwanted pregnancies and abortions, and pro-lifers vehemently oppose it.

 

Oh...I don't mind an UNARMED opponent. Think about it, I can point out flaws in RPA's thinking....and he'll never be able to defend himself.

 

So in a PURE discussion (less your personal morality and determination of "child"-status).......if a woman has sex and a foreign organism is introduced in her body, she did not "consent" to have the foreign organism be in her body....by having sex? And she has the right to remove that organism from her body? Like the syphillis virus?

Right?

 

A woman only has an abortion because she's a selfish jerk. No such moral implication exists regarding other "foreign organisms" that you are speaking of. The moral implications of abortion and the reasons a woman has one, means that there should be different standards regarding your comparisons. As I told Fugazi, there are EXCEPTIONS TO THE RULE!!

 

Tell us again, Sam.....how you "don't hate women"?

BTW, look at what you wrote....you say that women can have reasons for an abortion and you'd apply different standards....

but before that you say the ONLY reason a woman has an abortion is because she's a "selfish jerk"?

So you just contradicted yourself....yet again.

 

You know....when anyone say's something like you have pointed out this person did...saying they would support HANGING women who had abortions for murder....when anyone say's something THAT CRAZY...I am torn between feeling sorry for them to wanting to kick their ass!!

There is far too much violence perpetrated upon women by Religious WACKO'S....and for those members here who know me a bit....I HAVE A BIG PROBLEM WITH THOSE WHO WOULD KNOWINGLY AND PURPOSEFULLY HARM WOMEN!!!

Maybe it's the Alpha Male in me but one of the few things that really angers me is people who hurt women because of Religious beliefs....or for any other reason for that matter.

In my mind any male that does such a thing is NOT A MAN!!!

But they are rather a small child with a tiny penis....who need an ass wooping!!

Few other things get my blood boiling as this issue.

AboveAlpha

 

Then you ignore yourself I take it ?

 

Promoting skiing and boating is promoting a dangerous action that may lead to death or injury. What's your point ?

What is irritating is how you continue to claim that the single human cell at conception is a living human even though it has been pointed out to you numerous times that this is a fallacious claim as you have not shown this claim to be true.

 

The same analysis can be applied to those who claim child-rearing and child-birth are 'dangerous.' (even though it's a blatant lie) so.....What's YOUR point?

Apparently you didn't really read my posts. I said a fetus is a developing human being.

 

Who posted child-rearing is dangerous?

And you have never shown proof that childbirth is not dangerous, no scientific or medical proof.....blubbering about it being a lie doesn't cut it...

 

Yeah....a single egg cell or single sperm cell or even a Fertilized Egg Cell is NOT a Human Being.

What is a Human Being....well a Human Being has a definition that might surprise some people as a Human Being exists as MORE THAN ONE SPECIES!!!

That's right.

Not only is a Human Being a Multicellular creature it is also a MULTI-SPECIES CREATURE!!

How is this so?

I will explain.

As the Supreme Court of the United States has rules...a Baby...does not become a baby or person until the Fetus obtains PERSONAGE....this meaning the Fetus must be completely seperate on it's own either Birthed or removed via C-Section or other methods from the woman and it's umbillical cord must be cut.

Even if the now BABY needs machines to remain alive it still has obtained PERSONAGE and is independent from the Mother.

This also means that the Baby...or Human Being as independent has a variety of other species of Life Forms within it such as within the Stomach and Intestinal system...as without these Bacteria and other Life Forms that do not have Human DNA.....a HUMAN BEING...cannot exist or survive....as this is a SYMBIOTIC RELATIONSHIP going back Millions of years.

Thus....a person can call a Fertilized Egg....Living Human Cells....but they cannot call it a HUMAN BEING....as it is a BEING....when it can exist independently from the woman.

AboveAlpha

 

I have been told by many of your fellow secularist liberals that one cannot prove a negative. However I DID prove that the study that was linked to purporting to 'prove' that childbearing is 'dangerous' was a statistical fraud. One can 'cook' data easily and create all kinds of fancy graphs, claims, etc. based on false or faulty analysis and interpretation. I provided a link a while back but was told that because my link had the word 'life' in it they wouldn't go there. It's hard to argue with an ignorant person who refuses to avail themselves of all the facts available to them.

Apparently child bearing, child birth and child rearing can't be that dangerous otherwise we would have already become extinct. What better proof is there?

 

It will develop into a human being therefore it is a developing human being. It has living human cells so it is alive. Therefore it is living human life. Abortion terminates that life and preempts the development of a human being.

 

It cannot develop into a Fetus and be birthed as a Human Being until a many moth process of gestation occurs and even that cannot happen unless it is implanted into the Uterine Wall or Physically by hand implanted in an Artificial Uterine Wall in an Artificial Worb which has been possible for some time now.

Of and by itself a Fertilized Egg is NOT a Human Being....not even close....and it cannot even gestate and grow unless various other species of life...mostly Bacteria....are deposited into it's developing stomach and intestines as these would have to be implated into the Artificially Grown Fetuses body as well for it to even develop.

Human Cells cannot in of and by themselves develop into a Fetus never mind become a Birthed Human Being.

AboveAlpha

 

The point is that many things are dangerous. That is not a reason for not doing them in of itself.

It is you that fails to read nor it seems understand your fallacy. In order for something to be a developing human being, it first needs to be a human being.

To what stage of fetal development do you refer ?

 

Fallacy. Something that "might" or "will" develop into a human being sometime in the future is not necessarily a developing human being now. In order for something to be a human being a human being first must exist.

 

A Developing Fetus remains a developing Fetus and is NEVER classified as a Human Being.

Only when the Fetus is Birthed naturally, artificially or via C-section and can remain alive with or without the help of mechanical assitance and with it's umbillical cord CUT....is it then a HUMAN BEING obtaining PERSONAGE.

Personage is the key word....as without it....it remains a Fetus.

AboveAlpha

 

You are like the king of bad arguments or at least a contender for that throne. Non Sequitur "It does not follow"

It does not follow that if child birthing was dangerous that humans would be extinct.

Throughout most of history there was a significantly probability that a woman would die in childbirth. Generally things that have a significant probability of causing death are referred to as dangerous.

Bad bad argument. Really poor. Pathetically poor even.

 

Child Birth is INCREDIBLY DANGEROUS as well so is Pregnancy and if it were not for Modern Medicine and Medical Techniques in the U.S. the numbers of would be mothers who die would be large indeed.

Pregnancy causes all sorts of issues for the woman and everything from anemia, diabetis, depression, blood poisoning....you name it...can occur.

But actual BIRTHING...is the most dangerous aspect of all.

AboveAlpha

 

Who claimed women never had babies? Where do you come up with those weird conclusions??? Somewhere you got the weird idea that someone said child-rearing was dangerous...NO one posted that but you...do you know what child-rearing means? Raising children....didn't you know that or do you think raising children is dangerous? LOL!

So you think millions of women, doctors, scientists throughout history are all wrong, they all lied, about the effects of pregnancy....why would they do that? Was it a big conspiracy ?? LOL!
Please, do tell your mother how easy she had it....

Hey, big talker, how many of the following would you volunteer for:



Normal, frequent or expectable temporary side effects of pregnancy:
•exhaustion (weariness common from first weeks)
•altered appetite and senses of taste and smell
•nausea and vomiting (50% of women, first trimester)
•heartburn and indigestion
•constipation
•weight gain
•dizziness and light-headedness
•bloating, swelling, fluid retention
•hemmorhoids
•abdominal cramps
•yeast infections
•congested, bloody nose
•acne and mild skin disorders
•skin discoloration (chloasma, face and abdomen)
•mild to severe backache and strain
•increased headaches
•difficulty sleeping, and discomfort while sleeping
•increased urination and incontinence
•bleeding gums
•pica
•breast pain and discharge
•swelling of joints, leg cramps, joint pain
•difficulty sitting, standing in later pregnancy
•inability to take regular medications
•shortness of breath
•higher blood pressure
•hair loss or increased facial/body hair
•tendency to anemia
•curtailment of ability to participate in some sports and activities
•infection including from serious and potentially fatal disease
(pregnant women are immune suppressed compared with non-pregnant women, and are more susceptible to fungal and certain other diseases)
•extreme pain on delivery
•hormonal mood changes, including normal post-partum depression
•continued post-partum exhaustion and recovery period (exacerbated if a c-section -- major surgery -- is required, sometimes taking up to a full year to fully recover)

Normal, expectable, or frequent PERMANENT side effects of pregnancy:
•stretch marks (worse in younger women)
•loose skin
•permanent weight gain or redistribution
•abdominal and vaginal muscle weakness
•pelvic floor disorder (occurring in as many as 35% of middle-aged former child-bearers and 50% of elderly former child-bearers, associated with urinary and rectal incontinence, discomfort and reduced quality of life -- aka prolapsed utuerus, the malady sometimes badly fixed by the transvaginal mesh)
•changes to breasts
•increased foot size
•varicose veins
•scarring from episiotomy or c-section
•other permanent aesthetic changes to the body (all of these are downplayed by women, because the culture values youth and beauty)
•increased proclivity for hemmorhoids
•loss of dental and bone calcium (cavities and osteoporosis)
•higher lifetime risk of developing Altzheimer's
•newer research indicates microchimeric cells, other bi-directional exchanges of DNA, chromosomes, and other bodily material between fetus and mother (including with "unrelated" gestational surrogates)

Occasional complications and side effects:
•complications of episiotomy
•spousal/partner abuse
•hyperemesis gravidarum
•temporary and permanent injury to back
•severe scarring requiring later surgery
(especially after additional pregnancies)
•dropped (prolapsed) uterus (especially after additional pregnancies, and other pelvic floor weaknesses -- 11% of women, including cystocele, rectocele, and enterocele)
•pre-eclampsia (edema and hypertension, the most common complication of pregnancy, associated with eclampsia, and affecting 7 - 10% of pregnancies)
•eclampsia (convulsions, coma during pregnancy or labor, high risk of death)
•gestational diabetes
•placenta previa
•anemia (which can be life-threatening)
•thrombocytopenic purpura
•severe cramping
•embolism (blood clots)
•medical disability requiring full bed rest (frequently ordered during part of many pregnancies varying from days to months for health of either mother or baby)
•diastasis recti, also torn abdominal muscles
•mitral valve stenosis (most common cardiac complication)
•serious infection and disease (e.g. increased risk of tuberculosis)
•hormonal imbalance
•ectopic pregnancy (risk of death)
•broken bones (ribcage, "tail bone")
•hemorrhage and
•numerous other complications of delivery
•refractory gastroesophageal reflux disease
•aggravation of pre-pregnancy diseases and conditions (e.g. epilepsy is present in .5% of pregnant women, and the pregnancy alters drug metabolism and treatment prospects all the while it increases the number and frequency of seizures)
•severe post-partum depression and psychosis
•research now indicates a possible link between ovarian cancer and female fertility treatments, including "egg harvesting" from infertile women and donors
•research also now indicates correlations between lower breast cancer survival rates and proximity in time to onset of cancer of last pregnancy
•research also indicates a correlation between having six or more pregnancies and a risk of coronary and cardiovascular disease

Less common (but serious) complications:
•peripartum cardiomyopathy
•cardiopulmonary arrest
•magnesium toxicity
•severe hypoxemia/acidosis
•massive embolism
•increased intracranial pressure, brainstem infarction
•molar pregnancy, gestational trophoblastic disease
(like a pregnancy-induced cancer)
•malignant arrhythmia
•circulatory collapse
•placental abruption
•obstetric fistula
More permanent side effects:
•future infertility
•permanent disability
•death.