An honest discussion about Racism?

I've been on this forum for seven months now, and I'm noticing an alarming trend whenever racism is discussed.

I don't mean to generalize, but I've observed whenever racism is discussed, liberals and conservatives only look at certain angles and focus on certain groups.

For example, there are many posts in the Current Events section about black on white crime, and often from the same posters. Yet I notice these same people never talk about racism when it's against minorities, but only when it happens to a white person. I also notice how many conservative members here always want to ignore talking about racism committed by whites. I'm no race baiter, but is it really hard to recognize that many whites still hold racist attitudes towards minorities?

I also have the same problem with the more liberal-minded members. I've been told that whites can't be discriminated against because they have power and privilege over minorities, therefore it's impossible to be racist towards whites or any ethnic group that represents the majority. My problem with this view is that they're ignoring Institutional Racism, which is where a group (White/Black/Asain/etc) has the highest population and has racist attitudes towards any racial minorities. This is where the power+privilege argument would work. The problem is that many progressive members seem to equate Racism and Institutional Racism instead of recognizing the difference between the two. Anyone can be racist, but Institutional Racism is usually committed by an ethnic majority. A lot of progressives here also seem to brush off racism towards whites as something that's no big deal.

The point that I'm trying to make is that most people tend to favor certain groups when discussing racism. It's also one of the main reasons why I stay out of most of the race threads, because what I stated above always happens. If I point out that minorities can be racist against whites, I get accused of being racist and not checking my white privilege, and if I point out that racial minorities are still discriminated against, I get called a "Race baiter" or slandered with terms like "Anti White." It seems like both ends of the political spectrum pick sides in racism debates, and they cling dearly to those tactics.

Shouldn't we all be fighting racism, and not just when it happens to someone who shares our skin color or political ideology?

 

And then there is legalized racism in the form of affirmative action. You forgot that one.

What is unfortunate about discussions of racism on this forum is that it is usually begun when a conservative has expressed a political point of view and is immediately attacked as a racist. Overuse of the race card tends to dilute any discussion that is about the actual racism that you are talking about.

It is intended to stifle legitimate debate on issues by those on the left who will not even acknowledge the true history of racism of the democrat party.

 

I think you are on to something here although we might disagree upon further discussion. I tend to stay away from the discussions about race as well. While I strongly disagree with conservative whites on things like affirmative action and the Trayvon Martin issue I do not think most of them are racist, and I don't like slurs directed at black conservatives like " Uncle Tom " or " race traitor. " Emotions are so high around race and political ideology often makes us close minded unable and unwilling to see the other side. Too many whites are ignorant and have been deceived by long standing racist stereotypes even when they do not realize it. At the same time too many blacks are angry and defensive willing to blame all whites for the wrongs of a minority. If things are going to get better whites must get to know more blacks and on a deeper, wider, level. Blacks have to be willing to work with whites who often make mistakes. Blowing up or retreating with hidden resentment will not work.

 

Really? You don't consider affirmative action institutionalized racism? You don't consider one of the top lawyers at the DOJ claiming his department was ordered not to prosecute black on white crime as institutionalized racism? You don't consider whites being excluded from being able to receive certain loans and grants from the government because their skin is the wrong color to be institutionalized racism?

I can name... MANY examples of institutionalized racism against whites that are ongoing now. Can you name one example of institutionalized racism against blacks that is ongoing?

 

Great thread. Imo, every time a thread is posted about a violent crime between people of different races (on a freakin politics forum!) it is designed to increase racial tensions. What the h*ll do individual violent crimes that are already illegal and bring about stiff punishments have to do with politics? Nothing. Don't get me wrong, if violent crime went way up in this country (which it hasn't btw) it would be worth political discussion. Posting a thread about it every time someone hurts/kills someone with a different color of skin doesn't mean it's any more of a problem, or happens anymore frequent than it used to. It just means you're obsessed with race and demonizing certain race/races for some reason. That reason is most likely the threadstarters own racism toward the race of the offender in the story they posted. Not that they would come out and admit it. That's what sad and pathetic about most racists. They are ashamed of their own views to the point they won't admit they even have those views. I hope nobody around here is buying that garbage and getting scared of people who have a different skin color than they do. If you do, well, that's just sad.

 

but on here... you can't speak against obama's policies without being margainalized as a racist bigot still living in the 60's.

but on here... you can't support gun rights and self-defense in the Zimmerman case without being called a racist. Heck, you can't even kill a black who is actively beating you unless you're black. Ask Zimmerman


but on here.... the black panther party can put a bounty on Zimmerman's head and noone bats an eye. But had the KKK put a bounty on OJ Simpson's head.... oooooh boy.....


but on here.... Spike Lee and Roseanne Barr can harrass people they think are Zimmerman's parents by posting their home address on twitter. But had someone posted Michael Jackson's parents address when he was accused of pedophilia.... they would have been deemed racist.


Exposing the double standard is healthy.

 

This is a perfect example why many Conservative Whites chose not to get involved in a discussion of this type. First of all, Affirmative Action is based on an idea that the way to correct racial discrimination is with more racial discrimination. The problem with racism is caused by separating people into groups and driving divisive wedges between those groups. The fact is that White Community, racism is recognized and discouraged. The same can not be said with any other racial community. Let me ask you this. If a man votes for a black man solely because of the fact that he is black is he a racist? If a man votes for another white man solely because he is white is he racist? Is one more racist then the other? Many individuals that voted for Obama will openly tell you that it was because of the color of his skin.

The only way that we can end racism is to stop seeing people based on the color of their skin. I served for 13 years in the Marines. I have been in situations where I had to depend in others to cover my back, and I had to cover theirs. You have to trust these individuals to do their jobs. I had to learn quickly who I could trust and who I couldn't. I also learned that trust can not be based on skin color. It is based on an individuals character. There are some of my race, that I can not trust. While there are those of other races that I have no problem putting my life in their hands, and would lay my life on the line for them. I have been out of the Marines for 17 years, but I still govern my life based on those lesson learned during my service. My treatment of other is not based on skin color, but based on individual character.

I would not wish that everyone had the experiences that I have had, but I do wish that everyone could learn the lessons that I have learned. But as long as we have people of all races supporting the divisive wedges between groups, people will see others based on their skin color.

 

I agree with this from Post #6:
“Exposing the double standard is healthy.”

But there is another distinction.

There is normal human racism. All people are to some extent racist. That is just being human.

Then there is government-operated racism. Because government enforces this racism (be it Jim crow of Affirmative Action) is does so with the coercive power of government. Cross the government racists and they send somebody authorized to use guns on you.

A private citizen can resist normal human racism by simply refusing to interact with another human who shows him/herself to be objectionably racist. That is not an option with government enforced racism. Not only does the government use it coercive power to assure compliance but also uses coercive taxation to force you to support that government-enforced racism.

If an individual calls you the “n-word” or “c-word” you have the option to simply ignore him/her. If government treats you in a racist way, you do not have the option to ignore them.

 

I believe racism occurs naturally, and should not be avoided, but rather embraced.

All great civilizations were founded on xenophobic ideals. That's life.

If you live in a black, hispanic, asian, white, arab or indian community, you have every right to pull your people UP.

I'm OK with that.

 

"Your" people which you probably share very little DNA with. Humans are so stupid. Whatever.

 

Why is racism even important to the sole surviving species in the Homo genus?

 

People will always look to separate, categorize, etc other people. If we were all white the whitest people would be picked on. If we were all black the darkest people would be picked on. If we were all the exact shade the the poorest people would be picked on. Racism in general is just another form of that. I don't understand why people even care rather or not another human being is "racist". Its really their loss.

 

I guess the Klingons may have us beat regarding the subjective value of morals.

 

Lets look at the microcosm of this board and the topic of racism. On one had you have a side that uses racism as a weapon to try and win debates. In their mind, as soon as they've thrown down the racecard and demonized the person who disagrees with them, they've won the debate. Then there's the other side that is defensive about the issue of racism. When you're constantly accused of being racist or accused of supporting racist positions, you're most likely going to dismiss actual cases of racism. So how do you expect to have a honest discussion about racism when the topic has already been poisoned. I've been on this board for several years now, and I can name the most prolific race mongers off the top of my head, but the MODS would probably consider that a infringement on the rules. I can also name posters who constantly start threads that flame up the issue.

Until racebaiters grow up and leave the childish accusations out of the discussion, other people will continue to not take actual racism serious. It's as simple as that.

 

Maybe you can simply ask them why they believe racism should even be an issue, for the sole surviving species in the Homo genus.

 

we all share the same human dna.
Any differences are merely in the expression of those genes.

Regardless of colour we are all homo sapiens sapiens.

so humans are stupid, some humans are ignorant, many humans are stupid and ignorant.

 

I think it is sad personally, truly sad. We as americans feel the need to categorize and label ourselves as part of "group think". Why can't we be just, American? No one wants to be labeled or protrayed as a racist, the fact that one political party has used and still uses this to their advantage is what is truly disgusting. If there is one thing that I can say that Obama has accomplished it is this, he is proof positive, that the color of your skin can no longer be an excuse, a limitation, or a weapon. As the most powerful man in the free world, he has shown that the black man can accomplish anything the white man can, regardless of his skin color. Therefore it is time to eliminate race, and just be Americans.

 

"Why can't we be just, American?"

Taxcutter says:
Good question. Let's get rid of Affirmative Action and all be just Americans.

 

Seriously? There are mobs of black gangs terrorizing white people all over the country. Little girls being beaten, old people killed, and it's EVERY DAMN DAY. To suggest white people should be focused on white on black violent crime, which is statistically almost non-existent, is stupid!

White Girl Bleed A Lot

 

Racism in the US is a very complicated subject. Anyone can be a victim of racist thinking. Most of us harbor racial bias.

The african americans in the US have endured a much longer period of discrimination than they have civil liberty, and as such their racial bias is likely to endure much longer. That does not absolve them from race motivated crimes, it just explains them.

I used to love pulp fiction when I was younger. Many times the hero would be treated unfairly, have their family or lover killed and so on. When the hero finally got their vengeance they often killed or punished the whole group responsible. Our brains work that way, when we feel our group has been damaged and treated unfairly we tend to blame everyone who inadvertently belongs to the opposing group.

Much of racism is not easily viewed at surface level. We are all members of cultures which teach behaviors and value systems. Even without overt racism we bias towards our ingrained value system. We intuitively value the behaviors that we grow up with and where we perceive differences we feel alienation. This leads to actions which can be seen as racist, or by contrast effect how we judge the actions of others.

Everyone wants to make problems simple and create bad guys to punish. Respectful debate works much better.

Thanks

 

And if that political point of view has racial overtones, are you saying that it shouldn't be pointed out? You seem to be asking for a free pass here. A TeaParty guy, who I'm sure is a conservative just paraded the Confederate Flag in front of the White House, where the first African/American President lives.




That flag is a symbol as all flags are. This is one that represents insurrection, and slavery. My question is why no conservative condemns that? A guy named Larry Klayman is at a gathering where a US Senator spoke to the very same people, accusing the President of kneeling to Allah ( as if that would be a crime) , and telling him to put down the Koran, and get off his knees and come out with his hands up, and get out of town.

This kind of thing continues to go on, and not a single Republican or Conservative condemns it. That's tacit approval.

That's a completely ridiculous argument. The true history of racism is that it's embedded in conservatism. Whether it's conservative Democrats or Republicans doesn't change the fact that it's still conservatism. Your argument is based on the idea that all Democrats are conservatives? You know that isn't true. The South has always been conservative. It was once Democrats, and today it's Republicans. But what has never changed is their conservatism. When the Democrats became the liberal party, the southern conservatives felt the party didn't represent their brand of hate. So the Republicans opened the door and said "come on over". It was the Southern Strategy used by Nixon and Reagan.

In 1980, Ronald Reagan began his campaign, not with a speech on supply side economics. He began it with a speech supporting “states rights” just outside Philadelphia, Mississippi at the Neshoba County Fair, the very community where three civil rights workers were murdered in 1964. This was a deliberate appeal to white racists that he was on their side and was part of a Republican strategy going back to the 1960’s to build a conservative majority on the basis of racism.

The phrase "states' rights", although literally referring to powers of individual state governments in the United States, was described by David Greenberg in Slate as "code words" for institutionalized segregation and racism. In 1981, former Republican Party strategist Lee Atwater when giving an anonymous interview discussing the GOP's Southern Strategy (see also Lee Atwater on the Southern Strategy) said:


“You start out in 1954 by saying, "N*****, n*****, n*****." By 1968, you can't say "n*****" — that hurts you. Backfires. So you say stuff like forced busing, states' rights and all that stuff. You're getting so abstract now [that] you're talking about cutting taxes, and all these things you're talking about are totally economic things and a byproduct of them is [that] blacks get hurt worse than whites. And subconsciously maybe that is part of it. I'm not saying that. But I'm saying that if it is getting that abstract, and that coded, that we are doing away with the racial problem one way or the other. You follow me — because obviously sitting around saying, "We want to cut this," is much more abstract than even the busing thing, and a hell of a lot more abstract than "N*****, n*****.”

Atwater was an advisor of U.S. Presidents Ronald Reagan and George H. W. Bush and chairman of the Republican National Committee. So please tell me how you justify this kind of thing, and then suggest this is just a conservative expressing a "point of view" that shouldn't be attacked for what it is; Racist.
If you're going to use this as your organizing principles, then "own" it.

 

I think you're making it way too complicated. People all over the world, in virtually every culture and language, treat minorities differently. It's something inherent in our nature. It isn't necessarily rooted in hatred either. It's just the way it is. In the U.S., there are people who exploit that weakness in our nature in order to divide and conquer. If unity and harmony truly exist, they're out of business. Other countries and cultures don't allow these people to thrive like we do. And then there are example of peoples that are far worse than we are about race relations. They can't coexist under a rule of law.

 

Missed the OPs point all together, why is that not surprising.

 

Fair enough. So far I don't really disagree with you.

When I say its complicated I simply mean compared to most peoples thought process. Most people process things on a my side | your side basis. So if your are white and hear criticism of whites you take it personally, even if you are rabidly individualistic. The same is true of any race. Most of us can't stand someone from a different race telling people of our own race how to behave or act.

I could go on but I gotta go!

peace

 

Don't assume to know what I do or do not understand. If anyone has missed the point, it is you who have missed my point.