"Arrogant Atheists"

I can only speak for myself. It is not belief of which I am intolerant. It is "belief in action" ie: legislating your faith in ways that effect me -- whether I want to be effected or not. That is the height of arrogance, if you ask me. If the faithful could simply worship in peace and leave the rest of us alone, you'd get no quarrel from me. But more often than not, that is not the case.

 

Well, with a background like that, I think tooting your horn is something you've earned. And thank you for your service, by the way.

As is your right.

Here again we agree.

For my part, I simply want to see the evidence. To believe something so fervently without conclusive evidence is, at best, logically inconsistent. Again, certainly your right to believe in whatever you wish. And if it stopped there, you'd hear nary a peep out of me. But, unfortunately, it often does not stop there.

I'm curious -- do any of those unquestionably brilliant individuals present scientific evidence for their beliefs?

I agree that it's pretty silly. But the point is to illustrate that the burden of proof rests with the party of the affirmative. An oft-employed debate tactic of some theists is to counter the demand for proof with a counter-demand for proof of the contrary.

Certainly. Most web forums are populated by self-styled armchair experts. I count myself among them, BTW.

The purpose of science as I understand it is to explain various phenomena by gathering evidence in support of hypotheses through experimentation and observation. It would seem that faith is necessarily contrary to that technique. This is not to say that a person of faith can not be a scientist or employ the scientific method, but it would seem reasonable to conclude that a person of faith would have to at least acknowledge faith's shortcomings as an objective investigatory tool.

 

Faith is a subjective thing. Therefore, what you are suggesting is that we ALL should cast aside the subjective (which would include ALL of the curiosities of the scientific method such as observation) because of those shortcomings of the subjective and use those shortcomings of the subjective as an objective investigatory tool. You nor anyone else can make an observation without the use of the subjective and a person cannot exercise 'faith' without the use of the subjective.

 

I don't have a problem with you personally BTTR; I was just addressing the more militant atheists who pretty much pounce on any unsuspecting religiously themed thread to espouse
their views.

Say I start a thread...a friend is sick, caling for prayers...or whatever;
the more militant atheist, and trust me this board has them, will chime in...

"Statistically there is no verifiable evidence that prayer works, and it's the equivalent to
asking a rock for help"

Don't understand why anyone would ask for prayers on an anonymous board in the first place
but clearly the intent is benign...yet the more militant atheist, the truly hostile to religion
hijacks the more benign nature of the thread and it turns malignant.

Maybe the religious do the same, I don't know, being a believer I don't notice that as much;
but I have noticed militant atheism.

Our culture is by far much more secular than it is religious. Any 10 year old can surf
the internet for pornography, listen to songs with explicit lyrics or view extremely violent
videos on-line. Honestly I have sympathy for parents. What is a parent supposed to do
to protect their child...
religion, if nothing else provdes a moral foundation with God centered values...not pleasure centered values.

I think the opposite is true, I think secularism has a far greater influence on the culture than
does religion, it's religion that's trying to right the ship before it sinks...

but that's just my opinion.

 

The kind of atheists you're talking about find it convenient at times to claim lack of belief when what they really have is active disbelief, to which belief is necessarily seen as a threat.

Either a feeling of betrayal by religionists or the realization that militancy can yield a sense of empowerment in the presence of wimpy religionists.

 

Because athiests on the internet are (*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)s. It's sad but true. I know I used to count myself among them. Truth be told the majority of athiests on the internet do NOTHING but insult those of a thiestic view. They call them stupid, dumb, and ignorant to anything logicial. They claim their god is evil for letting the world fall to hell.

Yeah sure, there are some people of an athiestic persuasion (that i count myself among, though I prefer agnostic) who have the guts to defend thiests who are being unfairly persecuted, but the fact of the matter is the majority of athiests are just as ignorant as the supposed 'idiot theist' is.

Majority of athiest logic: I do not believe in god, this means I am more logical than anyone who does, anything they say is childish nonsense compared to me.

This likely stems from unfair persecution that have happened to them in their lifetime or they have witnessed. Because of this the general athiest population use this as a bias. It is an unfortunate effect and it has large hate filled ramifications. They get the mindset that all thiests think like the bad ones and have this huge 'Thiest vs Athiest' hatewar that goes on in their heads where they consider all thiestic beliefs silly without even thinking it over, they consider any thiest who questiona thiesm (even in the situations where nothing insulting was said) to be a PERSONAL insult to them and their intelligence.


If this bias didn't exist believe me; religious discussions wouldn' tbe such a heated topic. I think what we need to consider is those who speak the loudest DO NOT represent the majority.

Take Westboro Baptist Church for instance, these guy are complete (*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)s and claim to represent god. Yet we shouldn't take them as an example for all baptists.

What about Muslim terrorists? Do you think their faith states " kill innocent people and blow yourself up in crowded places? their will eventually be a place called america and when it exists it is the land of the devil!" ? Of course not.

We need to keep in mind just because someone is stereotyped for something that is not always the case, the radicals are often the most portrayed and are not representative of the whole deal. Just because someone doesn't think the same as you does NOT make them the enemy.

 

Well I did put a ? at the end.

 

Believers forcing us to follow their beliefs, whether through making a class say a prayer or passing laws.

 

Well it seems we spend most of our time discussing mountain biking anyway.

Sure. I've seen that happen too on other forums. Always found it to be in poor taste.

Agreed. However, as far as the descent into malignancy, let's remember it takes two to tango. I remember a thread recently right on this board where I witnessed that firsthand. I won't name names but suffice it to say the behavior on both sides of the aisle was distasteful.

Please don't take this the wrong way, but it doesn't surprise me that you don't notice -- we generally ignore negative things if they come from "our camp." Surely I do it too. I am reminded of the feminists who all but disappeared during Clinton/Lewinsky. I mean we are talking about people who NEVER miss an opportunity to get their fat faces in front of a news camera who would not say "boo" to criticize President Clinton over his dalliances and a clear-cut case of sexual harassment. Were Clinton's stationery adorned with an elephant instead of a donkey, you can bet your net worth that the feminists would have screamed until they could no longer speak. But we all do it. As a species we tend to lack objectivity.

Well you certainly have every right to try to change your culture. My guess is we may part company when it comes to how. By that I mean the methods we might each employ to reach our respective ends.

So can a 20-year-old, who is an adult and has every right to do so. The way to prevent the 10-year-old from accessing that material is to be a parent and be actively involved in your child's daily life.

I don't. They ought to know what they're getting themselves into -- or they have no business being a parent. Raising children is probably among the most difficult of all human endeavors.

Again, be active. Don't use the TV or the internet as a babysitter. Make sure your children understand that their behavior has consequences. It's hard work -- that's for sure. Probably something to consider before taking that roll in the hay.

Religion also causes people to fly airplanes into buildings.

Which culture? Look at the Middle East -- they bury women up to their necks and stone them to death for wearing skirts. THAT'S THE LAW. Here in our society we are still subject to all manner of laws and regulations that exist not to mitigate any sort of bona fide harm, but rather solely to "protect" free adult citizens from the "icky" parts of life. I'm not sure I want the government nanny involved in my life to that extent. YMMV, of course.

One that I appreciate you taking the time to share.

 

I don't really understand what you are trying to say. Is it that because it isn't written in the bible that Christians can't be this way?

I don't know what percentage of Christians actually live their life by every word the Bible says.

 

I find that I have no reason to believe that God exists. I respect the beliefs (but obviously do not share them,) of those who think otherwise. I consider it insensitive, and ill-mannered, to ridicule anyone's deeply held spiritual beliefs. I expect that I am typical of someone the religious might term an atheist (although I am not certain enough to regard myself as such), but how does any of that make me arrogant?

 

I like that answer. If there was any question about the possibility of you being arrogant, that question should have been erased. I commend you on that comment.

 

Yes, of course. That goes without saying. It's just that it's really really difficult not to agree with people who ridicule themselves through their religious beliefs.

 

This sums it up. And for the really conservative Christians, it's even worse because all you have to do to go to heaven is say the sinner's prayer before you die. So Ghandi is burning right now, but Jeffrey Dahmer, who reportedly had a death bed conversion, if he was sincere, is in heaven now. What a skewed version of morality!

 

hey, you figured out the sales pitch of christianity

are you a god?

 

According to the Bible, it's possible for God to become a human being. So it's possible .

 

Seems to me that to a devout believer, just not believing is itself a form of arrogance. I've been told that 'all atheists are arrogant' on more than a few occasions and it doesn't seem to need to be based on any more than that. In a similar way I've also been told we're all angry, and separately that we're angry at god and the lack of belief is just pretending because of some tragedy that's befallen us. I imagine these things might be true in some cases somewhere, but not mine.

If someone already believes I'm arrogant just for not believing, then what could I possibly say to defend myself against that accusation? Better yet, should I have to defend myself against someone else's perception of me, especially if that perception was based solely on their biases?

 

You created that post........


is that really YOU?

 

solid reasoning

ie.... that is why i have no pity on the self centered bigots that label people atheist; it's their own subjective stupidity that is causing it.

 

because they realize that they can't answer the realities of the universe. It is a grandstanding game of chicken as to when someone says "I don't get it, there must be a God, the statistics of life suggest that I just won the Powerball lottery 100,000 times consecutively". There isn't a person on planet Earth who can explain things in entirety, however, an atheist has no problem criticizing anyone who cries uncle. I remember the college professors that called me stupid for calling them on their weakness. They are still poor, I am not. A useless debate enjoyed by amateurs.

 

Perhaps. I think you are right in the sense that there are more debatable things that should be discussed. But as long as religion has an influence on public policy and politicians in general it will be hard to stay away from.

 

Compare:

Why do you have to lie and pervert? Are you a muslim, a pederast or a scientist of some kind?

 

Keep on ad homs and lies. When will you, Muslims learn to preserve your countless lives? You should pray your Allah everyday that we didn’t leveled your Mecca after 9/11. Your particular branch of atheism has been self-inflicting deaths for 1400 years. When will you get tired? Even animals have reflexes and learn to avoid pain.

It is amazing how Muslims have the same mentality as American college professors, scientists and intellectuals. For all the time we see Muslims going genocidal and not minding to sell their own Kadaffi, his little grandchildren and sons to greedy Marxists -capitalists, we see them going genocidal on blacks in his beloved country of Libya. We see it with our own eyes. But still atheists and Muslims imagine Christians doing it.


Indians sold their land. It is a civilized exchange. You cannot get mentality of civilized people in the same way as American college professors and intellectuals or unionized school teachers cannot get it. We bought blacks from Muslims who slaughtered and enslaved them. We gave them life, food, shelter and then liberty. We bought Manhattan Island as civilized people do. We worked, we made tangible values/goods and we traded them for land our business counterparts had for free with no work. We don’t go – ‘”this is my land because my granddad was born here”. We prove ownership with documents. You can prove your right on your land only because we gave that land to you and recorded that act in documents http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Mandate_for_Palestine . We didn’t claim it back when oil was discovered there. We buy oil from you, like civilized people, and we do all the work, - design and build equipment, design and air condition your palaces, cars and planes. We do not convert anybody. God does convert, we don’t. I can pray for Kadaffi and his family and Lybyan blacks slaughtered by Muslims and American atheists, but I cannot convert them, only God who is in his eternity can.

Another wild belief made up by college professors and intellectuals. My dear Marxist, you do not know what you are doing. Like college professors, scientists and intellectuals you live in the world of lies and deceptions. Your belief is as idiotic as the belief that Avicenna was a Muslim http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avicenna or the belief that zero came from Muslims http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/0_(number) or that gunpowder was invented by Chinese or that the globe is warming http://www.politicalforum.com/current-events/213619-climate-skeptics-prove-earth-warming.html .

 

You are an atheist. You live by lies and perversions made up by scientists, college professors, intellectuals and other kinds of thieves and crooks. This is what you observe and report - lies and perversions. I live by firm reality I observe. You live by blind beliefs. Xns do not convert, those who convert are Muslims, atheists, pederasts, Marxists.

The memo, the Bible has been out for quite a while. Cannot catch up yet?
It is our money, not yours. This is the United States of America. It is the Union of States each of which bases its State Constitution on God. Go to CA, change its Constitution and re-name it Utopia or Pederastia.

CALIFORNIA CONSTITUTION
PREAMBLE

We, the People of the State of California, grateful to Almighty God for our freedom, in order to secure and perpetuate its blessings, do establish this Constitution.




We, Xns are free people, we walk under Almighty God but not under man or a group of man.





CONSTITUTION OF THE STATE OF CONNECTICUT
PREAMBLE.

The People of Connecticut acknowledging with gratitude, the good providence of God, in having permitted them to enjoy a free government





Etc. You have lied again. You hate the Constitution of the State you live in. You hate the United States. You hate freedom.

 

What are you rambling on about?