Atheism and Genocide

An argument I hear repeated, over, and over, and over... without any sort of actual thought so it seems, are the genocides committed by atheists.

To me this makes very little sense. The most often cited parties are Stalin, Po Pot, and Hitler. Hitler doesn't really count given that he was a theist, despite what ever your anti-atheist websites say.

What the users of this non-nonsensical argument do not realize is, that these men required the people of their countries to conform to the standards of the state. Essentially worship the state, never stray and never question why?.

The National Geographic's special on North Korea is an excellent example of this. People refer to Kim Jong Ill as the Great Leader, and worship and bow before his portrait. If Kim was replaced by an imaginary character, it would be a recognized religion.

To my point, the deaths associated with the Soviet Union are not the works of atheism, they were not killed in the name of communism. They were killed because they did not worship and comply with the demands of the state, they were killed because the state sought to wage war.

Saying that atheism killed them may make you feel better about your own beliefs, but the notion is so inaccurate, its a wonder why people use it. It blows me away.

 

The subject group is not concerned with accuracy.

Do you want to be right?
or
Do you want to be right?

 

Hitler was a Catholic who believed in an Aryan Jesus, Chairman Mao was a Polytheist, Stalin and Pol Pot are the only people who can reasonably be surmised as Atheists, but even so, it's an association fallacy, and billions more have been oppressed and murdered by religion throughout a greater span of time, and continue to do so today, than any Atheist regime.

 

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLIKAyzeIw4"]‪Sam Harris - Misconceptions About Atheism‬‏ - YouTube[/ame]

Well worth the time to watch it, Sam Harris.

 

"i will only hold religions responsible for what people do and will continue to do, explicitly for religious reasons"


cool

 

I agree with this, but I would like to add that non-theists (such as myself) have to acknowledge the fact that religion is equally innocent to things that are ascribed to it. There is a distinction of course, telling people in Africa not to use condoms was based solely in religion, but the Crusades was an inevitable war with religious rhetoric rather than completely religious background.

Even though there might be some wiggle room (and that both sides probably will say that their side is more justifiable), I think it's important to be a good example. Don't throw genocides out there to say that either side is bad. If you do not acknowledge the fact that there are good and bad people on both sides, you don't belong in a civilized discussion.

 

But most Khmer Rouge soldiers were Theravada Buddhists,, as were many of the Khmer Rouge hierarchy.

 

A difference between a Christian and an atheist is it that a Christian knows that he has to give one day an answer to god - that he is repsonsible to god. And god will no accept a lame excuse like "Stalin said what I had to do" or "Hitler said what I had to do".

Because you are an atheist you are maybe in conflict with the words "sin", "heaven" and "hell". And because you are a member of the english speaking culture and the western world (what degenerated the last years to a cowboy-syndrome and lost the okzidental character) you have maybe the wrong imagination that human beings are able to create laws like god is creating something. But indeed human beings are not able to create anything - except thoughts, feelings and some other psychological qualities. Let me say: Our brain is nothing else dingh than to simulate the reality all around - we never have a real picture of the reality. We are somehow llving in our own films. Platon says we are only able to see the shadows of all things - not the things as they are in reality. Perhaps we can say that the ability to see all thigns in the way they are - to be able to see the truth - is a part of heaven. The nice film from spomeone - whoever it is - cannot be all truth all around.

Did I speak about god until now in the momen? No. So I would say it's not imspossible for atheists to understand what our Christain religion tells to all people - if they would really try to understand this. But even noble-price-winners like Mr. Dawkins - we can imahimne that he is not only a stupid iddiot but is a very intelligent person - prefers to be stupid idiots if they are speaking about Christians and are doing a complketly senseless political propaganda was against Christians - although never a Christian in their whole life did them something bad except to say "I believe in god and his rules. I believe in truth". It's for me personally a unbelievable paradox that a natural scientist of the western world attacks Christians - because without the greek christian religion (the rebearer of science) he would not be able to be a scientist. Whatever - his problem.

It seems to me atheists are not able to regulate their thoughts. They don't have an anchor in god - we are calling this anchor "hope", "belief", "trust" - and the picture of god is in this case the deep ground of an endless wide see. The grournd helps the water of our existance (panta rei) to stay and iof helps our coloureds boats of life to swim. Everythgin is floating - but there is a deeper ground for everything - a living ground - not a dead ground. The better imagination is maybe that we are like fish in the water. We are not able to see the water because it is so unbelievable normal to swim in water. A life withtout god is for Christians like a life without water for fish. So there is a deep motivation for every Christian to be in harmony with god. Live outside god is hell. And we are believing that a kind of filter what is installed in this universe. We are callign this filter something like "love vs hate", "contruction vs destruction", "life vs death" and so on and so on ... in the end the responsibility of Christian is the responsibility in the eyes of the Lord - we able to gvie an answer to the questions of god - we will have to accept his decisiosn what is somehow also our own decision because we are his children. And in the eyes lf the lord we are all naked little children - nothing is able to protect us - except the light in the deep heart of a loving soul - the everlasting light of life as it is life per se.

http://youtu.be/Ka_sHy9cVH0

 

Isn't it very strange that you are for me a kind of Nazi while I don't have any problem with this symbol (then ungerman swastika is stranging it only a little) although lots of members of my family died in the Holocaust and World War 2 while no one of your family died there? Why are you not able to learn something - even if a German (I in this case) told you still something about the deeper importance of the words "god with us"?

http://youtu.be/cCXxr44gh0U

 

Hitler used the word "aryan" to replace the word "german" - and as far as I know Hitler never spoke only one word about Jesus Christ. He spoke in a very confused way about that he is a tool of a so called providence - whatever this could had been in his mind. Aryan is also not a chritian expression - it refers to another context and it was specially a biological scientific modern darwinistic "religion" and an atheistic philosophy of will and might what dominated the not existing ideas of the Nazis. The Nazis followed in general just simple pragmatism. They used everything if it helped them to become mighty and they destroyed everything if it was a danger for their might.

http://youtu.be/5XxiiTt48EM

 

Thought you might find this interesting. Purportedly from a 1932(possibly '33) speech given by Hitler:

"My feeling as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded only by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God's truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was his fight against the Jewish poison. Today, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before the fact that it was for this that He had to shed his blood upon the Cross. As a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice. ...And if there is anything which could demonstrate that we are acting rightly, it is the distress that daily grows. For as a Christian I have also a duty to my own people. And when I look on my people I see them work and work and toil and labor, and at the end of the week they have only for their wages wretchedness and misery. When I go out in the morning and see these men standing in their queues and look into their pinched faces, then I believe I would be no Christian, but a very devil, if I felt no pity for them, if I did not, as did our Lord two thousand years ago, turn against those by whom today this poor people are plundered and exploited."

 

I don't read what Hitler said in a foreign language. Give me the german text please and/or the original source data. It's by the way absolutelly no problem for any atheist in this world to speak in the name of god or in the name of Jesus Christ. (The first line of this text has by the way also nothing to do with the christian religion).

(Another question: I would be interetsted why so many people of the modern times are hating Christians. So let me ask: Why do you hate Christians although never in your life a Christian did something bad to you?)


http://youtu.be/gx2Mc5K9VO0

 

All words of Hitler - I did not find your text in german language until now - are causing propagandistic effects - and unfortunatelly Hitler was not an idiot.

I give you a translation of a text from Mr. Hermann Rauschnig, who remembers some words of Adolf Hitler. All my experisnces say to me that this words are sounding very reliable. Here's also the very reliable source: http://www.freiburger-rundbrief.de/de/?item=323

The german text of the words of Hitler is:

"Für unser Volk aber ist es entscheidend, ob sie den jüdischen Christenglauben und seine weichliche Mitleidsmoral haben oder einen starken, heldenhaften Glauben an Gott in der Natur, an Gott im eigenen Volke, an Gott im eigenen Schicksal, im eigenen Blute [. . .]. Eine deutsche Kirche, ein deutsches Christentum, ist Krampf. Man ist entweder Christ oder Deutscher. Beides kann man nicht sein.“

My Translation:

"But for our people it is vital whether they have the Jewish Christian faith and his weak morality of compassion or a strong, heroic faith in God in nature, in God in his own people, to God in their own destiny in their own blood [...]. A German church, a German Christianity is rubbish. Someone has to be either a Christian or a German. Both can not be."

http://youtu.be/zM3bGqMVWK8

 

Oh there's a long list of genocidal theists to be sure. Heck we need only look back a few years in the Middle East to see that...

 

Huh..... I am anything but surprised to see the theists have failed to link atheism with genocide.

Maybe its easier to just mindlessly repeat things?

 

I'm not a Nazi.

 

The will of Hitler was it that not only one German should be a Christian any longer and he tried to murdererd all Jews without any exception in the meadow of the birchs and other terrible places.

http://youtu.be/-ic6cHW2lpI

Stella splendens in monte ut solis radium
miraculis serrato exaudi populum.
Concurrunt universi gaudentes populi
divites et egeni grandes et parvuli
ipsum ingrediuntur ut cernunt oculi
et inde revertuntur gracijis repleti.
Principes et magnates extirpe regia
saeculi potestates obtenta venia
peccaminum proclamant tundentes pectora
poplite flexo clamant hic: Ave Maria.
Prelati et barones comites incliti
religiosi omnes atque presbyteri
milites mercatores cives marinari
burgenses piscatores praemiantur ibi.
Rustici aratores nec non notarii
advocati scultores cuncti ligni
fabri sartores et sutores nec non lanifici
artifices et omnes gratulantur ibi.
Reginae comitissae illustres dominae
potentes et ancillae juvenes parvulae
virgines et antiquae pariter viduae
conscendunt et hunc montem et religiosae.
Coetus hic aggregantur hic ut exhibeant
vota regratiantur ut ipsa et reddant
aulam istam ditantes hoc cuncti videant
jocalibus ornantes soluti redeant.
Cuncti ergo precantes sexus utriusque
mentes nostras mundantes oremus devote
virginem gloriosam matrem clementiae
in coelis gratiosam sentiamus vere.

 

Hmm

http://youtu.be/ww8wqEgFIA8

 

I always get a kick out of posts like this one.

The idea that the religions of Abraham don't have blood stained hands is ridiculous!

Christians did extreme evil under Hitler.

The OT tells us about all kinds of evil done by the Hebrew, etc.

 

The so called Old Testament tells you nothing. You are using it only as a weapon against Christians and Jews, that's all. Who are your own biological ancestors? What had they done in history? What do you believe?

http://youtu.be/xjdxrpPYzWs

 

That is not so; it speaks for itself.

Murder of men, women, even infants heads smashed against rocks, so they could take other people's land.

Kidnapped and raped their own women from Shiloh.

Laws that allow the selling of your daughter.

Laws that allow the murder of people that believe differently then you.

Laws that allow slavery - and rape, breeding, and passing them on as an inheritance.

Laws that allow the rape of prisoners.

I could go on and on - actually read the Bible - especially Leviticus.

What would my ancestors have to do with what the Bible actually says?

 

Don't worry - be happy.

http://youtu.be/DGPYSE4nXUM

 

Hitler wrote: "I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord.." (from Mein Kampf)

"My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded only by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God's truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was His fight for the world against the Jewish poison. To-day, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before in the fact that it was for this that He had to shed His blood upon the Cross. As a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice.... And if there is anything which could demonstrate that we are acting rightly it is the distress that daily grows. For as a Christian I have also a duty to my own people.... When I go out in the morning and see these men standing in their queues and look into their pinched faces, then I believe I would be no Christian, but a very devil if I felt no pity for them, if I did not, as did our Lord two thousand years ago, turn against those by whom to-day this poor people is plundered and exploited"

-Adolf Hitler, in his speech in Munich on 12 April 1922

In the Bible we find the text, 'That which is neither hot nor cold will I spew out of my mouth.' This utterance of the great Nazarene has kept its profound validity until the present day.

-Adolf Hitler, speech in Munich, 10 April 1923

We have faith that one day Heaven will bring the Germans back into a Reich over which there shall be no Soviet star, no Jewish star of David, but above that Reich there shall be the symbol of German labor - the Swastika. And that will mean that the first of May has truly come.

-Adolf Hitler, speech in Munich, 01 May 1923

It will at any rate be my supreme task to see to it that in the newly awakened NSDAP, the adherents of both Confessions can live peacefully together side by side in order that they may take their stand in the common fight against the power which is the mortal foe of any true Christianity.

-Adolf Hitler, in an article headed "A New Beginning," 26 Feb. 1925


"In the 1930s, Pacelli and his associates negotiated with the Nazis to form a contract which was signed in 1933 as the Reich Concordat with the approval of the Pope.

On April 25, thousands of Catholic priests across Germany became part of an anti-Semitic attestation bureaucracy, supplying details of blood purity through marriage and baptism registries in accordance with the Nazi Nuremberg laws which distinguished Jews from non-Jews. Catholic clerical compliance in the process would continue throughout the period of the Nazi regime." [Cornwell, pp.154]

 

Your problem: Lots of my family members died in the Holocaust so I'm not able to take your "arguments" serios. For me you are a brainwashed brainwasher and I'm not happy about your misuse of the victims of the shoa for your political ideas without intellectual trustworthy substance.

http://youtu.be/PD-Q5Wq_uKI