Atheism and Genocide

The Nazi-Empire was from 1933-1945 - 12 years - so whom do you call "Nazi-children"? All Germans, all Catholics or all Israeli? All Europeans? All Chinese? All US-citizens? ...

http://youtu.be/1ygdAiDxKfI

 

children brainwashed in those 12 years obviously

 

Like nearly every catholic in the whole world I was asking myselve "Who for heavens sake was Cyril of Alexandria?" - and this was in the the times of Hitler not in another way. In the german lexicon of the Saints is written what christian monks said about his death: "Finally, finally, this evil man has died. His departure delighted the living, but he will have grieved the dead."

Why did you not use for example Bernard of Clairvaux - he was really unbelievable important for the european history (and because of this also for the american history) and a propagandist of the crusades - as an example that all Catholics are hating Jews?

http://youtu.be/s9HnRZlMiKQ

 

The soldiers of Hitlers army were six years in average? ... If you think so. ...

http://youtu.be/tyslV5eCfTY

 

It's obvious.

Cryl was known for his persecution of Jews and other warmongerings which makes him such a great saint. Bernard is known for his churches and his influence on canon law which make him such a great saint. His utter failure to stop good Catholics from massacring Jews on two separate crusades (obviously god didn’t want him to succeed)

No his soldiers where much order. Another Christian named Martin Luther greatly influenced the Nazi soldiers.

 

You are making vague and some very specific assertions about something not proved. How is that just? Do you have any hard facts? Or, is it all just conspiracy theory?

 

Let's back up a second there. You said to me that making a deal with the devil is not approving. I pointed out how the concordat that the Vatican drew up in part silenced dissent against the Nazis and how the Vatican itself remained silent as well on the Nazis; clearly both signs of support, if not trumpets of approval. Your response here was that the Vatican is slow. Your response is barely remotely connected to the topic at hand and has absolutely nothing to do with what was said. Further, since the Vatican made the first move in drawing up the document, speed is not a factor. Please rethink your argument.

I'll cater to your supposed interest then.

The Catholic church DID turn a blind eye to evil and atrocity in order to serve the church. It was NOT to serve the people. It was NOT to serve God.

Without Catholic support, the Nazi regime wouldn't have had a leg to stand on, never mind the backbone of an entire nation. The church should have denounced him forcefully, loudly and thoroughly.

>Next came the quotes from Wikipedia about what happened after the Nazis violated the concordat, and that's all fine and good considering that was never in dispute. Nazis having 'shat' all over the concordat was your non sequitur response, that from your perspective (I can only guess at this- feel free to correct me) takes away any responsibility or culpability from the Vatican for having drawn up the document in the first place. Again, the Vatican made the first move in doing so, and what the Nazis did after that doesn't alter that first move in any fashion.

 

Guess what Spanky, the majority of people in the world believe there is a God. They then should have a greater statistical likelyhood of being associated with historical genocides.

So what of the minority atheist? As has been said, even though they have a small statistical likelyhood of being associated with genocides compared to their theist counterparts, there a ample examples through history. What does this say about atheists? It would say that they may perhaps be a little worse than their majority theist counterparts, or at best, no different.

As for myself, it is pretty evident that wars are faught for power, wealth, and control. Some use religion as an adjunct, as we see children in Islam being coerced to die for Allah, or we see religion seen as a threat to the control of the state, as with Stalin. However, no one fights to force people to worship a particular God. It is ALWAYS over land and resources.

 

I'm replying to you! Duhhhhh!

 

He was very successfull. Even Jews named their children sometimes "Bernhard" to honor Bernhard of Clairvaux. Sometimes Jews even called some children Mary or Joseph to honor the most important and most beloved Saints of the catholic church. 'Unfortunatelly' this saints are even Jews themselve - but nothing is perfect, isn't it? Or is ít perfect?

http://youtu.be/HJlIOMaqj0E

 

Sorry - was a mistake. I had the feeling you have some humor in your soul - but doesn't look that I was right. Your fanatism is very strange for me. I was always with my life in the middle of all this confusions - so I'm perhaps not able to understand your motivation. For me it sounds crazy what you try to do. Antisemitism is by the way still today a very great problem - specially also the antaismieietnism og Mosims in germany and a kinf og "antifascisstic" anzismeitims is also a very interesting phenomenon. Then I could call in Germany somehtign a kind of "Sarrauin-Antisemitism" - noit becaue Mtr-. sarrazin isd an Antimsoiete but because he waked a sleeping from of antisemitism. Therer'Äs also exsisztgin a form of vrey laughable Wlillamson-Anitisemitism adn so on and so on. ... YOu Sepctriums of anatsiomseoomtosm ignors fro ecmkpel that mpostly the epoel from teh left poicvtalk sepctruj are onyl antiiraselasi admn tjo antisemites whiel they are even calling Jews Zionazis for example. It's really an interesting theme.

http://youtu.be/U1cBCFKt7VE

 

@Ingledsva

Correction:

http://youtu.be/apQ7uxpKrsk

 

What fanaticism? Rebutting you?

What "crazy thing" am I trying to do?

What the hell are you talking about?

I am not anti-Semitic!

And I haven't said a single thing that could be taken that way.

You are an extremely confused person.

I am giving you Historic FACTS about Hitler calling himself a Christian, and Nazi involvement with the church! Again VERIFIABLE FACTS!

You are ridiculously denying history -

and calling me anti-Semitic - when we haven't even mentioned the Jews!

We are discussing HITLER and CHRISTIANITY!

 

You are not able to realize that I am a catholic German with jewish ancestors, isn't it? In case I am wrong I will die because some Nazis will kill me. In case you are wrong you had a nice day today. And the very strange thing: It feels like you need some help because everywhere are enemies all around your brain.

http://youtu.be/zaDK9W0EaDM

Franz Heinrich Ziegenhagen

Die ihr des unermeßlichen Weltalls Schöpfer ehrt,
Jehova nennt ihn, oder Gott nennt Fu ihn, oder Brahma, hört!
Hört Worte aus der Posaune des Allherrschers!
Laut tönt durch Erden, Monde, Sonnen ihr ewger Schall,
Hört Menschen, hört, Menschen, sie auch ihr!
Liebt mich in meinen Werken,
Liebt Ordnung, Ebenmaß und Einklang!
Liebt euch, liebt euch, euch selbst und eure Brüder,
Liebt euch selbst und eure Brüder!
Körperkraft und Schönheit sei eure Zier,
Verstandeshelle euer Adel!
Reicht euch der ewgen Freundschaft Bruderhand,
Die nur ein Wahn, nie Wahrheit euch so lang entzog!
Zerbrechet dieses Wahnes Bande,
Zerreißet dieses Vorurteiles Schleier,
Enthüllt euch vom Gewand,
Das Menschheit in Sektiererei verkleidet!
Zu Sicheln schmiedet um das Eisen,
Das Menschen-, das Bruderblut bisher vergoß!
Zersprenget Felsen mit dem schwarzen Staube,
Der mordend Blei ins Bruderherz oft schnellte!
Wähnt nicht, daß wahres Unglück sei auf meiner Erde!
Belehrung ist es nur, die wohltut,
Wenn sie euch zu bessern Taten spornt,
Die Menschen, ihr in Unglück wandelt,
Wenn töricht blind ihr rückwärts in den Stachel schlagt,
Der vorwärts, vorwärts euch antreiben sollte.
Seid weise nur, seid kraftvoll und seid Brüder!
Dann ruht auf euch mein ganzes Wohlgefallen,
Dann netzen Freudenzähren nur die Wangen,
Dann werden eure Klagen Jubeltöne,
Dann schaffet ihr zu Edens Tälern Wüsten,
Dann lachet alles euch in der Natur,
Dann ist's erreicht, des Lebens wahres Glück!

 

So because you happen to be a Catholic German with Jewish ancestors, Ingledsva is being antisemitic because he/she is discussing how Hitler and the Nazi regime associated with church and religion?

To compare with something that you hopefully don't have a personal investment in, what you are implying is basically that anyone who dares to discuss Charles Manson would be attacking any ancestor of Sharon Tate. Do you see how wacky that is?

 

And back to the topic: there were Atheist regimes that committed evil, and there were Christian regimes that committed evil, and Muslim ones, and Hindu ones and so forth and so forth. this shows that no group is immune to evil. It also shows that religion does not provide a moral compass that never fails. It also shows that all ideology, including religion, can lead to intolerance and evil.

A few examples of Christian brutality:
1. The actions of missionaries in South America
2. Apartheid, which was done with justification from the Bible btw. The fathers of Apartheid was very dedicated Christians, and the Apartheid constitution started by affirming that south Africa is (was) a Christian state
3. The brutal murders (genocide) against the Huguenots in France
4. The Irish wars
5. Colonial powers actions in Africa, specifically that of the Catholic Belgium King in Congo.

Now the list will be as long for members of all religions, so I am not picking on one religion, I am merely pointing out that all groups have their checkered history.

AH

 

Show me please where I called Ingledsva an antisemite, diabolus.

No idea what you like to say with your spoken and unspoken words here. Do me the favor please not to try to explain me now what you like to say with this few painful sentences. My answer is just simple: Do not use drugs!

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=thjCnWf-kEI"]Die Apokalyptischen Reiter - Ghostriders In The Sky - YouTube[/ame]

 

What exactly?

http://youtu.be/1rrktaJ72JY

 

Genocide. Killing and murdering. Destroying not only people, but cultures

AH

 

That's an answer? What's the next step?

http://youtu.be/_mkqUffnzjk

 

Yes, it is. Do want to make a positive contribution to this thread now?




AH

 

I see your point, but don't you think that the religion-haters, the anti-Christians, have a particularly awful human rights record? I think some people are drawn to atheism because they prefer to live without any kind of moral restrictions. Strict materialists see man as just a sack of chemicals - why should this diminished creature be accorded rights or dignity?

Proof Leopold was Catholic? Many aristocrats of his era were influenced by Gibbon or LaPlace or Comte and despised religion. The golden age of imperialism was also the golden age of atheism. And I'm sure you are aware that many of those who opposed Leopold were Christian - both Catholic and Protestant. Example: William Sheppard

 

Atheism is of central importance to Communism. How else can we explain the horrendous persecution of religious folk by Communists? If atheism wasn't so central, an accommodation would have been reached.

Example of Communist persecution: Some actions against Orthodox priests and believers along with execution included torture, being sent to prison camps, labour camps or mental hospitals. Many Orthodox (along with peoples of other faiths) were also subjected to psychological punishment or torture and mind control experimentation in order to force them give up their religious convictions During the first five years of Soviet power, the Bolsheviks executed 28 Russian Orthodox bishops and over 1,200 Russian Orthodox priests. Many others were imprisoned or exiled.

LINK

And here are some quotes from Marx, Lenin, and others:

“The first requisite for the happiness of the people is the abolition of religion” (Karl Marx)

“The World has never before known a godlessness as organized, militarized and tenaciously malevolent as that preached by Marxism. Within the philosophical system of Marx and Lenin and at the heart of their psychology, HATRED OF GOD is the principle driving force, more fundamental than all their political and economic pretensions. Militant atheism is not merely incidental or marginal to Communist policy; it is not a side effect, but the central pivot. To achieve its diabolical ends, Communism needs to control a population devoid of religious and national feeling, and this entails a destruction of faith and nationhood. Communists proclaim both of these objectives openly, and just as openly put them into practice.” (Alexander Solzhenitsyn, former communist, Nobel prize winner)

“Atheism is the natural and inseparable part of Communism.” (attributed to Vladimir I. Lenin)

“Our program necessarily includes the propaganda of atheism.” (V.I. Lenin)

The official journal of the Soviet Academy of Pedagogical Sciences published a government directive Atheistic Education in the School as a resource on how to separate God from human society. The opening paragraph is revealing: “The Soviet school, as an instrument for the Communist education of the rising generation, can, as a matter of principle, take up no other attitude towards religion than one of irreconcilable opposition; for Communist education has as its philosophical basis Marxism, and Marxism is irreconcilably hostile to religion.

‘Marxism is materialism,’ says V. I. Lenin; ‘as such, it is as relentlessly hostile to religion as the materialism of the Encyclopedaists of the eighteenth century or the materialism of Feuerbach.’

 

Atheists have never been numerous. Today the austere atheist faith numbers less than 3% of the world population. And yet look at all the deaths they are responsible for.

Communists alone killed about 94 million in only 80 years!

See: The Black Book of Communism

On a per capita basis they are by far the worst murderers in history.

 

You have predictably failed to prove that atheism was the cause for anything.

Instead, you use fallacies. Using the decline in pirates to prove the progression of global climate change.