Atheism and Genocide

The anti-Christians, the religion-haters you meet on the internet, may seem kind of zany as they drool over anti-religion hate sites in their mother's basement - but we shouldn't forget all the evil their ilk have caused mankind.

Included in this category are the leaders of the new atheism, most Zionists, the Young Turks who are responsble for the Armenian genocide, many leaders of the abortion industry, and fascists like Mussolini and Hitler.

It's not clear whether Hitler was a theist or atheist, but he certainly hated Christianity and persecuted the churches.

Was Hitler a Christian?

quote: Hitler's leading advisers like Goebbels, Himmler, Heydrich and Bormann were atheists who hated religion and sought to eradicate its influence in Germany.

quote: In his multi-volume history of the Third Reich, historian Richard Evans writes that "the Nazis regarded the churches as the strongest and toughest reservoirs of ideological opposition to the principles they believed in." Once Hitler and the Nazis came to power, they launched a ruthless drive to subdue and weaken the Christian churches in Germany. Evans points out that after 1937 the policies of Hitler's government became increasingly anti-religious.

The Nazis stopped celebrating Christmas, and the Hitler Youth recited a prayer thanking the Fuhrer rather than God for their blessings. Clergy regarded as "troublemakers" were ordered not to preach, hundreds of them were imprisoned, and many were simply murdered. Churches were under constant Gestapo surveillance. The Nazis closed religious schools, forced Christian organizations to disband, dismissed civil servants who were practicing Christians, confiscated church property, and censored religious newspapers.

 

You Mean Hitler Wasn’t A Priest?

quote: Hitler was blunter still on other occasions. "It is through the peasantry that we shall really be able to destroy Christianity," he said in 1933, "because there is in them a true religion rooted in nature and blood." His countrymen would have to choose: "One is either a Christian or a German. You can't be both."

quote: Polish Christians felt the full force of the persecution, as historian John Morley reminds us. "In Poland, both Jews and Christians were objects of Nazi oppression and manipulation." The clergy were a chief target: "In West Prussia, out of 690 parish priests, at least two-thirds were arrested, and the remainder escaped only by fleeing from their parishes. After a month's imprisonment, no less than 214 of these priests were executed... by the end of 1940 only twenty priests were left in their parishes — about three percent of the number of parish priests in the pre-war era." The toll of murdered Polish priests would rise into the thousands; their Protestant counterparts (though a much smaller group) fared no better, with many members of the clergy perishing in the camps.
The Rutgers site's presentation is entitled "The Nazi Master Plan: The Persecution of the Christian Churches," and it notes a deep hatred of Christianity throughout the higher echelons. "Important leaders of the National Socialist party would have liked to meet this situation [church influence] by complete extirpation of Christianity and the substitution of a purely racial religion." Their assault was massive: "Different steps in that persecution, such as the campaign for the suppression of denominational and youth organizations, the campaign against denominational schools, the defamation campaign against the clergy, started on the same day in the whole area of the Reich... and were supported by the entire regimented press, by Nazi Party meetings, by traveling party speakers."

 

I'm always amazed that this sort of sophistry fools anyone. Why wouldn't an atheist's deeply held position on a matter of great importance influence his behavior?

Of course Christians have committed evil acts, but any evil Christians have done is contrary to the teachings of Jesus.

 

Here's Hitler admiring history's most famous atheist:


quote: Hitler often visited the Nietzsche museum in Weimar and publicized his veneration for the philosopher by posing for photographs of himself staring in rapture at the bust of the great man.

quote: Finally there was Nietzsche's prophecy of the coming elite who would rule the world and from whom the superman would spring. In The Will to Power he exclaims: "A daring and ruler race is building itself up.... The aim should be to prepare a transvaluation of values for a particularly strong kind of man, most highly gifted in intellect and will. This man and the elite around him will become the 'lords of the earth'." Such rantings from one of Germany's most original minds must have struck a responsive chord in Hitler's littered mind. At any rate he appropriated them for his own--not only the thoughts but the philosopher's penchant for grotesque exaggeration, and often his very words. "Lords of the Earth" is a familiar expression in Mein Kampf.

LINK

 

"I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord.."
- Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf

 

You'll find Hitler made some, mostly vague, references to God in his speeches and even a couple of references to Jesus. A lot of these references were made early in his political career when he had to be careful not to alienate voters. Since Hitler was a notorious liar of course these statements mean next to nothing.

It's better to look at what Hitler said in private at the height of his power - when he could really proclaim what he believed. It is also important to look at his actions. As I've showed Hitler persecuted the Christian churches.

Here are some quotes from Hitler found in Hitler's Secret Conversations 1941-1944:

Night of 11th-12th July, 1941: "National Socialism and religion cannot exist together.... The heaviest blow that ever struck humanity was the coming of Christianity. Bolshevism is Christianity's illegitimate child. Both are inventions of the Jew. The deliberate lie in the matter of religion was introduced into the world by Christianity.... Let it not be said that Christianity brought man the life of the soul, for that evolution was in the natural order of things." (p 6 & 7)

10th October, 1941, midday: "Christianity is a rebellion against natural law, a protest against nature. Taken to its logical extreme, Christianity would mean the systematic cultivation of the human failure." (p 43)

14th October, 1941, midday: "The best thing is to let Christianity die a natural death.... When understanding of the universe has become widespread... Christian doctrine will be convicted of absurdity.... Christianity has reached the peak of absurdity.... And that's why someday its structure will collapse.... ...the only way to get rid of Christianity is to allow it to die little by little.... Christianity the liar.... We'll see to it that the Churches cannot spread abroad teachings in conflict with the interests of the State." (p 49-52)

19th October, 1941, night: "The reason why the ancient world was so pure, light and serene was that it knew nothing of the two great scourges: the pox and Christianity."

21st October, 1941, midday: "Originally, Christianity was merely an incarnation of Bolshevism, the destroyer.... The decisive falsification of Jesus' doctrine was the work of St.Paul. He gave himself to this work... for the purposes of personal exploitation.... Didn't the world see, carried on right into the Middle Ages, the same old system of martyrs, tortures, (*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)s? Of old, it was in the name of Christianity. Today, it's in the name of Bolshevism. Yesterday the instigator was Saul: the instigator today, Mardochai. Saul was changed into St.Paul, and Mardochai into Karl Marx. By exterminating this pest, we shall do humanity a service of which our soldiers can have no idea." (p 63-65)

13th December, 1941, midnight: "Christianity is an invention of sick brains: one could imagine nothing more senseless, nor any more indecent way of turning the idea of the Godhead into a mockery.... .... When all is said, we have no reason to wish that the Italians and Spaniards should free themselves from the drug of Christianity. Let's be the only people who are immunised against the disease." (p 118 & 119)

14th December, 1941, midday: "Kerrl, with noblest of intentions, wanted to attempt a synthesis between National Socialism and Christianity. I don't believe the thing's possible, and I see the obstacle in Christianity itself.... Pure Christianity-- the Christianity of the catacombs-- is concerned with translating Christian doctrine into facts. It leads quite simply to the annihilation of mankind. It is merely whole-hearted Bolshevism, under a tinsel of metaphysics." (p 119 & 120)

9th April, 1942, dinner: "There is something very unhealthy about Christianity" (p 339)

27th February, 1942, midday: "It would always be disagreeable for me to go down to posterity as a man who made concessions in this field. I realize that man, in his imperfection, can commit innumerable errors-- but to devote myself deliberately to errors, that is something I cannot do. I shall never come personally to terms with the Christian lie. Our epoch Uin the next 200 yearse will certainly see the end of the disease of Christianity.... My regret will have been that I couldn't... behold ." (p 278 )

 

Is there something vague here? Seems to be rather short and to the point.

"I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord.."
- Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf

 

'Secret conversations' versus public speeches and his diary?

Sounds fishy.

Apparently this is an actual book. I looked it up on Amazon. It's also known as 'Hitler's Table Talk', and the very first review points out that it's been discredited by historians. Not surprisingly the people who seem to want Hitler to be portrayed as an atheist give it stunning and stellar reviews.

Not deciding to side with either of those, I took it to Wikipedia. (I know, I know- people hate on the wikipedia. I personally don't. It's come a long way since it's earliest inception. People actually make citations and get called out when they don't know. It's not perfect but it's a good start.)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hitler's_Table_Talk

I couldn't quote the whole article because of a character limit, sorry.

What we have here, and from other things we think we know about him, is a sliding scale for the character of Hitler and his religious beliefs that starts on one end as an atheist, and slides toward the other side through being a critic of the church, to someone who used religion as a tool, to a devout Catholic and past that right on up to occultist loon.

The problem you have pinning him down as an atheist is that the source you quote (which is the only basis for that determination, aside from the 'no true Scotsman fallacy') is 'unreliable' at best; a faulty English translation of a French translation of the original German work(s), and according to an Amazon reviewer at least, discredited completely.

I can't pin him down on the scale myself with the other determinations either, but if I had to pick one as the 'best', I can say with little uncertainty that this was a man that used religion, however he may have felt about God personally, as a tool for the worst possible deeds to the greatest possible cost and damage in a dangerously short amount of time. However he felt personally and whatever level of 'spirituality' he may have entertained is immaterial to me- without religion as his left hand and political spin as his right, we would have never heard the name of this failed artist and never witnessed his other handiwork.

If there ever comes a time where you ever need to know why I fiercely defend the separation of church and state, even though you probably don't acknowledge it just because the exact words are not in the document blatantly, there you have it.

 

Even if atheism should somehow be a cause for anything, religion is the cause for atheism

 

This is becoming extremely STUPID!

Why would you think you are going to die because we are discussing HISTORY?

 

ROFL .. Repression and denial perhaps ?

Demonization

 

If you weren't calling me anti-semeitic you should not have posted to me, a whole paragraph on anti-semitism - with YOUR Spectrums of Antisemitisms ...

 

The real nasty genocide in WWII that even the Germans soldiers were shocked by was committed by Catholics in Croation against the Orthadox and Jewish Serbs.

Catholic religious leaders not only helped but some of them were tried and convicted after the war.

The Pope knew and his hencemen offered assistance to the genocide.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Involvement_of_Croatian_Catholic_clergy_with_the_Ustasa_regime

Pavelic used to keep a wicker basket full of eyes in his office. He liked to gouge out the eyes of his captives for fun.

The Church helped him escape after the war, disguised as a priest.

 

These atheistic States simply replaced God with another God, that God being their Supreme Leader, be it Stalin, Hitler, Mao, Pol Pot, or, in times further back in history, Napoleon.

For some unfathomable, irrational reason, mankind seems to need a 'Superior Being' to rulle over them.Hence, we still see people of the Islamic faith praying three times a day, even in the streets and regardless of the inconvenience to the general populace. Praying doesn't seen to have done their lifestyle much good in the Middle East over many centuries, and even in this century! This invisible God still let tyrants rule over them ruthlessly, tyrants like Gaddafi, Mubarek and that thug that still rules Syria with an iron fist.

 

A blind chicken finds also sometimes a schapps. It's really more than only extremly stupid to try to see the catholic church as a part of the Nazi movement. Such ideas are crazy, that's all.

http://youtu.be/A1evxMA7yYw

 

Only because I love curiosity: What do you think about Jews?

http://youtu.be/PD-Q5Wq_uKI

 

Everyone is the fool he is making out of himselve. There's only one problem: there are godless fools and fools in the eyes of the Lord.

http://youtu.be/xPaLK1RVeCI

 

You really seem preoccupied with this lurid story. You've posted it repeatedly. The problem is, it is a fabrication.

MYTH: "THE BASKET OF HUMAN EYEBALLS"

<<< MOD EDIT: OFF TOPIC >>>

 

Christians have done evil, but their evil acts have been contrary to the teachings of Jesus.

In contrast, atheist evil-doers have followed all too closely the teachings of prominent atheists like Nietzsche and Lenin and Mussolini.

For example Mao mirrored Leninist/Stalinist brutality.

Mao's Great Leap to Famine

By FRANK DIKÖTTER

HONG KONG — The worst catastrophe in China’s history, and one of the worst anywhere, was the Great Famine of 1958 to 1962, and to this day the ruling Communist Party has not fully acknowledged the degree to which it was a direct result of the forcible herding of villagers into communes under the “Great Leap Forward” that Mao Zedong launched in 1958.

To this day, the party attempts to cover up the disaster, usually by blaming the weather. Yet detailed records of the horror exist in the party’s own national and local archives.

Access to these files would have been unimaginable even 10 years ago, but a quiet revolution has been taking place over the past few years as vast troves of documents have gradually been declassified. While the most sensitive information still remains locked up, researchers are being allowed for the first time to rummage through the dark night of the Maoist era.

From 2005 to 2009, I examined hundreds of documents all over China, traveling from subtropical Guangdong to arid Gansu Province near the deserts of Inner Mongolia.

The party records were usually housed on the local party committee premises, closely guarded by soldiers. Inside were acres of dusty, yellowing paper held together in folders that could contain anything from a single scrap of paper scribbled by a party secretary decades ago to neatly typewritten minutes of secret leadership meetings.

Historians have known for some time that the Great Leap Forward resulted in one of the world’s worst famines. Demographers have used official census figures to estimate that 20 million to 30 million people died.

But inside the archives is an abundance of evidence, from the minutes of emergency committees to secret police reports and public security investigations, that show these estimates to be woefully inadequate.

In the summer of 1962, for instance, the head of the Public Security Bureau in Sichuan sent a long handwritten list of casualties to the local boss, Li Jingquan, informing him that 10.6 million people had died in his province from 1958 to 1961. In many other cases, local party committees investigated the scale of death in the immediate aftermath of the famine, leaving detailed computations of the scale of the horror.

In all, the records I studied suggest that the Great Leap Forward was responsible for at least 45 million deaths.

Between 2 and 3 million of these victims were tortured to death or summarily executed, often for the slightest infraction. People accused of not working hard enough were hung and beaten; sometimes they were bound and thrown into ponds. Punishments for the least violations included mutilation and forcing people to eat excrement.

One report dated Nov. 30, 1960, and circulated to the top leadership — most likely including Mao — tells how a man named Wang Ziyou had one of his ears chopped off, his legs tied up with iron wire and a 10-kilogram stone dropped on his back before he was branded with a sizzling tool. His crime: digging up a potato.

When a boy stole a handful of grain in a Hunan village, the local boss, Xiong Dechang, forced his father to bury his son alive on the spot. The report of the investigative team sent by the provincial leadership in 1969 to interview survivors of the famine records that the man died of grief three weeks later.

Starvation was the punishment of first resort. As report after report shows, food was distributed by the spoonful according to merit and used to force people to obey the party. One inspector in Sichuan wrote that “commune members too sick to work are deprived of food. It hastens their death.”

As the catastrophe unfolded, people were forced to resort to previously unthinkable acts to survive. As the moral fabric of society unraveled, they abused one another, stole from one another and poisoned one another. Sometimes they resorted to cannibalism.

One police investigation from Feb. 25, 1960, details some 50 cases in Yaohejia village in Gansu: “Name of culprit: Yang Zhongsheng. Name of victim: Yang Ecshun. Relationship with culprit: younger brother. Manner of crime: killed and eaten. Reason: livelihood issues.”

The term “famine” tends to support the widespread view that the deaths were largely the result of half-baked and poorly executed economic programs. But the archives show that coercion, terror and violence were the foundation of the Great Leap Forward.

Mao was sent many reports about what was happening in the countryside, some of them scribbled in longhand. He knew about the horror, but pushed for even greater extractions of food.

At a secret meeting in Shanghai on March 25, 1959, he ordered the party to procure up to one-third of all the available grain — much more than ever before. The minutes of the meeting reveal a chairman insensitive to human loss: “When there is not enough to eat people starve to death. It is better to let half of the people die so that the other half can eat their fill.”

Mao’s Great Famine was not merely an isolated episode in the making of modern China. It was its turning point. The subsequent Cultural Revolution was the leader’s attempt to take revenge on the colleagues who had dared to oppose him during the Great Leap Forward.

To this day, there is little public information inside China about this dark past. Historians who are allowed to work in the party archives tend to publish their findings across the border in Hong Kong.

There is no museum, no monument, no remembrance day to honor the tens of millions of victims. Survivors, most of them in the countryside, are rarely given a voice, all too often taking their memories with them to their graves.

Frank Dikötter is a professor at the University of Hong Kong, on leave from the University of London. His books include “Mao’s Great Famine.”

 

Yes, but following your analogy, Marx would be the Atheist equal to Jesus, or more acuratly even Darwin. How many evils were committed in Darwin's name?

It would be accurate to compare Lenin, Stalin and other so-called atheist with the Popes for instance, who did order many evils.

People who do not believe in the Christian God, are no automatically immoral. It is dishonest to use your argument "The many 'Christians' who committed evil acts are not true Christians, the same amount of Atheist who committed evil acts are true Atheists."

Or to put it differently, your argument is, if there is a group of 5 Christians, and 1 commits murder, he is not a true Christian. If there is a group of 5 Atheists (and I am not an Atheist, just for the record) an 1 commits murder, then he is a typical Atheist.

That argument is dishonest.

AH

 

That does not answer my question!

Why do you think you are going to die for discussing history?

And I will add - why are you becoming stranger and stranger as we speak?

 

I already gave you the answer.

Number 88 on page 9

Jews are just people like all others.

I don't believe in prejudice because of race, color, belief, etc.

My extended family pretty much looks like the United Nations. LOL!

 

Marx was the prophet of Klassenhass (class hatred, communisms, internationalisms) and Darwin was the prophet of Rassenhass (race hatred, Nazisms, nationalisms). The persons Darwin and Marx were sinners like we all are sinners - but the fanatisms they - and lots of others - were fighting for caused an unbelieveable high number of murdered people.
And what you said about Christians

is indeed true. By the way: What's your own religion?

http://youtu.be/OK263b3kD4k

 

There's an extraordinary high number of nobel price winners under Jews. How do you explain this?

http://youtu.be/t4Svh-9ohg4

 

Why do you take normal answers as some kind of slam - requiring rebuttal such as this?

As to the question - I have no idea. Why is any group good at some thing?

Perhaps it is because there was a concerted effort to get scientists and smart people out of the country - and they bred more smart people.

As well as the fact that smarter people would probably have been better off financially allowing them to flee Germany before the slaughter began.