California Democrats say YES to gender selection abortion

There is no historical foundation for a belief that prior to birth a person exists. The US Supreme Court addressed this very issue in Roe v Wade and even the attorneys advocating for the abortion laws at the time were unable to produce any evidence that a "person" existed prior to birth at any time in the recorded history of mankind. The precendent simply doesn't exist to support the belief that the "preborn" are "persons" entitled to protections under the US Constitution.

 

Yes, it is very complicated but the US Supreme Court addressed this complexity in addressing the Roe v Wade case.

 

Abortion is not a "we" decision. Abortion is a decision made by the one woman involved. You need not worry about it at all unless/until YOU are pregnant.

 

What you say is true. But if one could somehow think of an arguement why the fetus should legally be classified as a person, it would open up the possibility that legal abortion may not be Constitutional after all.

 

OK, allow me to change the words

I think that women should kill as many fetuses as possible.

Is that better?

 

Person implys they can think, one cannot think without a functioning brain, so there could be a possibility of limiting abortions so that only a fetus that is a developmental stage earlier than full brain function, but to ban them earlier than that point would never pass the smell test of the definition of a Person. It is why based in science and the facts abortion will never be banned entirely.

 

I have often cited reasons why personhood for the "preborn" could be established as legal precedent by a Constitutional Amendment but a paradox exists because the Rights of one Person cannot infringe upon the Rights of Another Person. It is a paradox because the "preborn" cannot have a Right to Life if it violates the Right of Self of the Woman.

Obviously this paradox would have to be settled by a pragmatic compromise under the law and the only one that really makes sense is the pragmatic solution provided for in Roe v Wade that was based upon the "potential personhood" of the preborn. I've never been able to come up with a better pragmatic solution where both the Rights of the Woman and the Rights of the Preborn (if granted) could both be accomodated.

We still get back to the problem presented in the thread. Some idiot politician proposed a bill that would have directly violated the Supreme Court decision in Roe v Wade where a woman could electively choose an abortion for any reason during the first trimester of the pregnancy. We shouldn't condemn any politicians for opposing it but should correctly condemn the politicians that proposed it.

 

No, women have no obligation to consider what you think. And they shouldn't.

 

you seem to be all over the map here

you did not like it when I used the word "we"

so, I changed it to read that "women" should kill as many fetuses as possible

and you don't like that either

I thought you supported the taking of life and the killing of fetuses? Has that changed?

 

As we go into Page 72...and the thread will eventuallly "time out" ...

I'd like everybody to notice that neither sec nor any of the other "pro-lifers" can answer a logical question directed at the subject of the OP. That being....


If it were made illegal.....how EXACTLY would they determine if a woman is having an abortion because of "gender selection"?

Do they expect the woman to confess to the Womb Gestapo? Do they expect the doctor to confess to the Uterus Stasi?

Or in not being able to answer that....are they admitting that "gender selection abortion" is merely a red herring? A phony way of either trying to create a "back-door" to outlawing ALL abortions.....or simply a meaningless talking point?

IOW....more dishonesty from the "pro-life" side?

 

I support women making their own choices regarding their own bodies. What's so hard to get about that?

 

I haven't ever seen an Anti-Choicer answer ANY direct question with a direct FACTUAL answer....

 

What's the right of self?

It could be argued the other way around. Because the rights of one person cannot infringe upon the rights of another person, the woman's right to self violates the preborn's right to life.

 

sensible laws that protect life is not even close to an invasion

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danger to the mother, fetus, or the fetus is already dead. This can occur at any stage of pregnancy
And the rights of both are equally important, that is why you need to protect both

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Because it isn't. SCOTUS unconstitutionally ruled it is

 

ok, see you when you get back

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nope, but I've seen lots of dishonesty on the *pro choice* side

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a woman never loses control of her body by anything the government does

 

basically political BS

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abortion is a we decision. A woman does not make the decision on her own. Her doctor is involved. Also we the people should all be concerned with the future of the country and it starts in the womb.

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The government is and it should

 

Amid the muck and lack of facts and truth ..."" A woman does not make the decision on her own. Her doctor is involved."""


DUH, a doctor isn't involved UNTIL a woman decides to have an abortion.... It is HER decision and her's alone just like it would be YOUR decision to make YOUR own decisions on medical care.

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Easy to reiterate: I haven't ever seen an Anti-Choicer answer ANY direct question with a direct FACTUAL answer....

 

You are wrong, but it is ok to be wrong on all accounts. You just reaffirmed that the doctor is involved in the decision. Thank you

 

So you assume women can't make a decision on their own? Yes, they can and that is a fact you can never disprove.

You mistakenly said I reaffirmed that a doctor is involved in the decision which is obviously untrue, I stated quite clearly for those who have no reading comprehension, or honesty , problems ,

"""DUH, a doctor isn't involved UNTIL a woman decides to have an abortion.... It is HER decision and her's alone just like it would be YOUR decision to make YOUR own decisions on medical care.

 

wow, thanks for clarifying. For a moment, I thought you had changed your position and wanted the babies to live.

 

Once again you are wrong, but it is ok to be wrong, the doctor is involved in abortion decisions, unless she has an illegal one. and for that matter almost every medical decision has doctor influence. Especially ones requiring surgery
Your bold faced lie about me thinking women can't make their own decisions is just another example of how ridiculous you are.

 

Why is it a lie to say you think women can't make their own decisions? You just stated that women need a doctor to make their decisions. (which they do NOT. a doctor is not a life coach or psychiatric counselor and even if the doctor was, it's still the woman's decision and hers alone. That FACT is what scares lesser men)


You always say one thing and then when faced with facts you just wiggle into pretending you said something else...

 

nope in fact i repeated what I said. The doctor is involved in medical decisions(both men and women) to include abortions. Yes a doctor is a life coach. He, or she gives recommendations. The person can either take it or do something else, I never said otherwise.
Your lie is that I think women can't make their own decisions. You also call me a lesser man, another piece of crap lie. You speak of lesser men, then lie lie lie. Sounds to me like I'm the bigger man. At least I'm honest and don't try to twist something into some bs war on women.
Only one trying to say I'm saying something else is you and your LIES. Let me know when you want to stop with the bs lies and name calling. I wont hold my breath

 

So you contend that when women find out they're pregnant they are so stupid that they have to call their doctor to find out if they want to have a baby or not??

Sorry, it doesn't work that way. Most women getting pregnant are adults and can decide for themselves if they want a kid or not. IF she decides to have an abortion THEN a doctor is involved.

 

That last sentence is what I've been freaking saying. the doctor is involved in abortion decisions and in fact almost every medical decision made, man or woman. You keep saying woman this woman that, medically doesn't matter what gender you are a doctor is involved if you seek treatment, or want advice. I included men in the doctor category. Sure you can *tough* it out, or do something illegal if you wish, or under the table. So you agree with me that doctors are involved, but had to have this ridiculous rant, because you can't help but throw cheap shots?