Can a Christian lose their salvation? Or, are there former Christians?

Yes, I'm Catholic and yes I use the Douay-Rheims version. But in my verse memorization and quotation NKJV comes easiest to me. It's just a matter of personal taste. The NKJV is missing some books, so it isn't everything to me.

 

But nowhere does the Bible say specifically "Peter" in reference to that suggested quotation as stated by the poster who made this statement:
"it some versions of the bible it says that whatever Peter holds to be true on earth will be held true in heaven." Private interpretations are a no no.

 

The usual babblings of the only person on this earth who 'knows the truth!' 'HIS truth,' of course.

Who has for this forum modified the common cop out phrase, that has been used in politics for the past 3 yrs, to HIS version of it as applicable to HIS daily rantings of "It's all the Christian's fault!'

How very sad that HIS posts are always in anger, accusatory, and reveal much more than just HIS version of anti-theology in regards to HIS person.

I'm done humoring you by responding to pure folly...

 

One of the passages of Scripture that have been used to show that Christians can lose their salvation is Hebrews 10:26.

"For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,"

Standing alone, this verse not only seems to say we can lose our salvation, but it seems to say we 'will' lose our salvation. Because there is not a Christian out there that hasn't sinned wilfully since coming to Christ.

But all we need to do is look and see what the chapter is discussing. In ch.10 the writer of Hebrews is telling his Jewish Christian readers, who are wanting to continue with the Mosaic law and sacrifices, that they need to forget that law and sacrifices. In Heb. 10:1-4 he shows that the animal sacrifices never did take away our sins. They just temporarily covered or 'atoned' for our sins. And because they didn't take them away for good, you would have to keep having more sacrifices on a continual basis.

But, Jesus Christ came offering Himself as a sacrifice for all sin one time. Heb. 10:12 "But this man,after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;....for by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified. "

The one offering of Christ covered it all forever. It didn't just atone for sin, it removed sin out of the picture. Heb. 10:18 " And their sins and iniquities will I rmember no more. Now where remission of thse is, there is no more offering for sin. "

You see. The one Sacrifice of Christ, ended bringing any more sacrifices.

Now look at Heb.10:26 "For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins. "

It doesn't mean the Christian has lost his salvation. It means if we sin we do not go and get another sacrifice as they did under the law. We may come under the disiplinary action of God if we continue. But that is all. And that is enough.

Quantrill

 

Yes...sinners and no faith in God cannot be save......

 

[I'm having a difficult time following threads as I get booted off about 2 times/hr and have been during the past week. No probs with any other sites/forums tho, so if this question has been asked B4 and answered, then let me know:]

I was raised Roman Catholic but have been away from that denomination for many years now (I carry no denominational label), but have a question in regards to 'salvation.'

My remembrance is that if a Catholic dies without a last confession or last rites by a priest with a 'mortal sin' on their soul (breaking the 10 Commandments with such as 'not honoring their Father & Mother' (for whatever reason?), not keeping the Sabbath (missing church w/o good reason), or what may be considered telling a 'major lie,' they will go to Hell. Dying with unconfessed 'venial sins' (white lies, etc) go to Purgatory for a period of time.

So in other words, they're never 'sure' of their salvation!

The scripture that should reassure any & all Christians is "These things have been written that you may "know" that you have eternal life." The believer shud never have to question their salvation or fear 'losing' it just by stumbling in their walk. God is not a 'gotcha' Being that specializes in technicalities...

Have their modified as in 'updating' their doctrine/Catechism in regards to such, which they have done in several areas since I grew up in it ??

 

dont OD.

the funny thing about 'truth' is it applies to all.

the quacks of beliefs make them up as they go along

is that what you tell yourself?

You should reread your posts sometimes. They are incoherant!

My claim is easy for anyone to comprehend;

Often the best example of anti-christ can be found by observing christians.

It means, anyone can see for themselves what one is; self delusional based on the capacity to lie to 'the self'. (ie... to rant the creed is just a lie to the self)

what makes me angry is the liars are allowed to waste oxygen when they would make better fertilizer.

then at least something good can come from 'a liar'

i aint the one laughing..................

nor angry

i just enable judges to know what is real

i aint the one to fear!!!!!

 

The main difference between you and me is that 'you hate me,' whereas I just 'feel sorry' for you....you spew continuous anger, contempt, & hate as your 'responses' to threads without any 'sane substance' in your rantings & retorts--just a continuous stream of insults. How the mods can turn a blind eye must be out of 'pity!?'

And if YOu dont understand my posts as being 'coherent,' it is again because you have no spiritual understanding as a spiritually dead person (separated from the Spirit of God).....let it go, or fan your flames of bitterness with more personal attack rhetoric and get banned...

 

Amen to that brother.

Quantrill

 

i hate what you do. (false witness)

but let's measure how you show "pity"

yu tell me, i have no spiritual understanding (which is a lie) and then rant out rhetoric about me getting banned............


that B good old christian 'pity' for ya..............

ie..... your posting shares nothing but hypocritical bigotry.

what you perhaps dont like about my posting is i know your bible better than you do, let alone about 'spiritual' to the letter of existence itself (god, all gods)


i just dont do make believe.

And i can hold you accountable based on identifying and addressing any and every line-item of all and any of the three religions of abraham, without even having to think about it, spiritually speaking of course.

the difference between you and i is integrity towards the good of any belief besides the lies of the deceitful


i dont do beliefs that make a person believe they are better than another.

'we are ONE" and nothing more spiritual than comprehending that 'to the letter'

 

................

"When a wiseman joins a fool in his folly, he becomes as the fool."

 

Back on topic.....any practicing Catholics that can respond to this post?

 

Yes, dying in a state of mortal sin, according to the Church results in a descent into hell, but the Church only provides a guideline or a definition of what mortal sin is. The final judgement on that and one's personal culpability rests solely with God. To see this from an extreme end of the perspective, if you murder and then die, that murder is a mortal sin. I don't think any Christian should feel like they're going to get swept into glory after killing somebody else. But then again, I don't think of any serious believer that would murder another human being. The most eggregious sins are usually sins that Christians just don't commit.

But regarding the sliding scale of culpability, let's examine the mortal sin of masturbation:

As you see here, this isn't a matter of human laws where you get punished for stepping over the line regardless of your reasons or personal situation. You're judged by God according to your unique situation. And by the way, God isn't looking for an excuse to send you to hell, he's looking for a way to bring all his children home to heaven. It's important to understand that disposition, to remember that God is love in the deepest, most intimate sense of the word. Love and justice met on the cross for you.

 

My view on this subject is that disbelief is part of the gift that is free will.

God, by giving us free will, also gave us the possibility of making the decision to stop believing in him. It doesn't really matter to him if we believe or not, since that has no impact whatsoever on his existence or power.

A case could even be made that God might prefer for us to, at least for a while, experience what it is to not believe in him, to consider the alternative of a world without god's guidance. Those that experience such a world and renew their faith would do so as a conscious choice and not just because they never knew anything else or out of habit.

 

Quantrill - God never said - and the christian religion never teached - not to trust in other people and their experiences. So whom do you really trust if you say "I will trust God's Word over your experience."?

-----

What, then, shall we say in response to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us? He who did not spare his own Son, but gave him up for us all—how will he not also, along with him, graciously give us all things? Who will bring any charge against those whom God has chosen? It is God who justifies. Who then can condemn? No-one. Christ Jesus who died—more than that, who was raised to life—is at the right hand of God and is also interceding for us. Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall trouble or hardship or persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword? As it is written: 'For your sake we face death all day long; we are considered as sheep to be slaughtered.' No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord. http://youtu.be/YaqQnhBtxaI

 

Is your view on this subject based on FACT or FICTION?

Do you make those claims based on the experience of having spoken to God and God revealed those things to you, or are you just expressing your perceptions which are nothing more than imaginations?

It has been said that "anything is possible", so that possibility cannot be ruled out. Until it can be proven however, it is just a speculation, wild imagining, another possible fairy tale waiting to have its structure completed.

Do you know of anyone who can attest to the validity of that claim? Is that person or person(s) willing to step forward and give a testimony for the Lord and give the necessary details that would substantiate your claim?

 

Why would such a person have to proved anything to you? His relation would be with god and god alone. Again, you are not that important, here and in the world, that we have to prove anything to you. You are the only one asking for proof. The rest of us are quite satisfy with exchanging on the subject, nothing more.

 

What do you understand if you are using the word "salvation"? What do you personally think what salvation is - and why is everyone who is using such an abstractum like the word "salvation" filling this empty phrase with completly different things depending on the individual history and own experiences? It's by the way in lots of cases much more better to learn from the experiences of other people instead to make bad own experiences what forces someone to cry for personal salvation. If it would be the will of god that you have to go to hell - why would you hesistate to accept this will of god? Or: Why are you not able to be an extreme radical fundamental Christian like it was Saint Francis of Assisi for example? Quantrill: A Christian cannot loose salvation? A Christian cannot loose his/her way to heaven?

http://youtu.be/WRDxpmV27p8

 

His problem is perhaps that he needs an anchor to be able to think - and the ultimative anchor is the alternative of all alternatives - the float of the flows - the rock of all rocks - the ... the personal [not-]existance of the existance. ... the only one [not] existing god. What he calls "stickiest religion" is probably nothing else than an feature of life itselve. Nothing is as stickiest as life. Although life is nearly an impossiblity and all life will end one day for sure with a personal death in this world here - nevertheless life is sticky if it is sane. Sticky life denies to die - wether it believes in life or not is not so important. It's only a kind of 'schizophrenic' situation to be life and not to believe in life - to be a child of god and to deny to have a father in heaven.

http://youtu.be/BKb-FBsGLH4

 

I trust God. If someones experience is contrary to the Bible, then I trust the Bible, not their experience.

Quantrill

 

Salvation----to be delievered from the penalty and power and eventually the presense of sin, resulting in the gift of eternal life from God.

Quantrill

 

'Will' is not the same as 'belief'.

Can you wilfully believe something you don't believe? Can you make yourself believe something you don't? No. If you did, then it wouldn't be 'belief'.

When people ask me 'how do you go to heaven' ?, I tell them, you must believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of the living God. And having believed that, you come to Him as your Lord and Saviour.

They sometimes say, 'Is that all? All I have to do is believe something and so everything is alright and Im saved?' My answer is yes. Belief is all that is required, but, it is required.

This is why God knows those who are His. There are plenty of people who wilfully go to church, and are religious. But they do not really believe these things concerning Jesus Christ. Their religious work does nothing towards their salvation.

Quantrill

 

Do you?

What do you say about the day some hundreds or thousands of years ago where the sun started to rise in the West and ended in the East? Do you know how much energy it needs to turn this rotation and that this energy had killed all life on planet earth? Is it much more easy to understand "They feeled like the time would move backward and causes and effects had changed their positions". The bible is an important holy book - written from thousands of inspired human beings - but it is itselve not god. Your concept of "holy book" seems to be from the Islam and not from the Christian religion.

http://youtu.be/LeXf90OGTHE

 

Yes, I do.

If your describing the time when the Sun and Moon stood still due to the prayer of Joshua, yes. A great miracle of God. But really nothing to Him to do. He Who spoke the creation into existance can sustain life and move the universe at His will.

Joshua 10:12-13 " Then spake Joshua to the LORD in the day when the LORD delivered up the Amorites before the children of Israel, and he said in the sight of Israel, Sun, stand thou still upon Gibeon; and thou, Moon, in the valley of Ajalon.

And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, until the people had avenged themselves upon their enemies. Is not this written in the book of Jasher? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down about a whole day. "

Quantrill

 

Is this what you are saying here important? If yes - why? If not - why do you say so?

http://youtu.be/S4y2equAIdI