Corona Virus Update

Is this an ungracious way of admitting you were wrong about Dobbs v. Jackson Woman's Health Organization?

There's little doubt pro-choice and pro-life advocates will try for a federal law. Pro-lifers are already upset abortion pills are being shipped across state lines and women wanting abortions are being transported to states that perform them. Pro-choicers have already been talking about a national law legalizing abortion.

 

Pills will be shipped from states like CA and NY to Texas and Florida. Do you anticipate CA and NY helping pro-life states prosecute people helping women get abortions? I wouldn't. Funds will be sent to women in Texas so they can travel to pro-choice states. And so on. Activists will just have to stay out of pro-life states.

 

As long as they aren't MY funds... I couldn't care less.

 

Your money will be wasted in a fruitless effort to enforce the law.

 

Funny, I never heard anyone outside of really fringe elements ever call enforcing the law a "fruitless effort".

 

Well, you have now because I'm not a "fringe element."

 

Again... your opinion.

 

Well, here's a Pew Research poll...



https://www.pewresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/06/ft_2022.06.13_abortion_01.png

Looks like you're in the minority.

 

The VOTERS in each state will decide to ban abortion, allow abortion, or regulate abortion. That will establish the LAW in each state. THAT is the only "survey" that counts.

 

Again, this from Dobbs v. Jackson Woman's Health Organization:

"After today's decision, the nine Members of this Court will no longer decide the basic legality of pre-viability abortion for all 330 million Americans. That issue will be resolved by the people and their representatives in the democratic process in the States or Congress. But the parties' arguments have raised other related questions, and I address some of them here."​

https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/21pdf/19-1392_6j37.pdf

As I said, there is the possibility Congress could outlaw abortion. It could also legalize it, too.

 

Nothing will convince you of anything but your own opinion. So we'll just wait and see... shall we?

 

Where's your evidence?

 

Read your own posts.

 

Doesn't it depend upon the actual law in question? Are all laws worthy and legitimate?

 

I assume there may be exceptions as you say, but I have never seen or heard of one. Well... there was that one I heard of in a Township in New Jersey that forbade picking flowers on Sunday... but it never really affected me.

 

There are many illegitimate laws. Right off the bat, all the laws that comprise our drug policy of prohibition are illegitimate because the government has no legitimate authority to tell the citizen what he may or may not put into his body.

One of the roles of the jury is to judge the law on a case-by-case basis. Back in 1850 when the Fugitive Slave Act was passed, juries soon nullified it by refusing to convict those charged with its violation. The government criminalized the act of assisting a slave to escape. Clearly the government had no legal or moral authority to adopt such specious legislation. Juries refused to convict and eventually the Act was thrown onto the trash heap of history. No citizen is under any obligation to obey an illegitimate law.

 

Your love of drugs blinds you to the effect of those drugs on society. A drugged up society is a very dangerous one, from highways to hospitals, from body shops to carpenter benches. Unlike you, I don't want to live in a world filled with intoxicated people, from booze or drugs. I don't want to see my taxi driver high, my broker high, my EMT high... or my kids' teachers high. Under those conditions we'll soon all be eating out of garbage cans and living in caves.

 

LOL, I don't want to live in a world filled with politicians and tyrants, but I realized 50 years ago I have no choice. Welcome to reality AARguy!

As for drugs, they are part of the human condition, whether you and I approve of it or not. What is certain, proved by more than a century of empirical evidence today, is that a policy of prohibition causes great harm to society and individuals, and it does not work. Some of us learned that a century ago with the failure and subsequent repeal of The Volstead Act, some of refuse to learn the lessons of history. Here's an old poem from 1931 by Franklin Adams:

PROHIBITION IS AN AWFUL FLOP.

WE LIKE IT.

IT CAN'T STOP WHAT IT'S MEANT TO STOP.

WE LIKE IT.

IT'S LEFT A TRAIL OF GRAFT AND SLIME

IT'S FILLED OUT LAND WITH VICE AND CRIME

IT DON'T PROHIBIT WORTH A DIME

NEVERTHELESS, WE'RE FOR IT.

In my few years in Uncle Sam's Army I learned that the CIA was in the dope business. Having missed the Vietnam experience you might have missed that. Or averted your gaze. Gary Webb exposed it back during the Clinton administration, but then shot himself twice, you know, committed suicide.

 

Some people are drug damaged, dysfunctional losers that don't want to maximize their potential as human beings, just drift along on a soft cloud of mental fluffiness, unruffled by and unaffected by reality. They want to take the easy way out in life. They avoid difficulties by taking them out of mental focus and simply drift along in a drug induced unreal Lollipop Land.

It's about "The harder right rather than the easier wrong".

Some people choose the easier wrong and expect the rest to care for them. How sad.

 

All that's true, but it fails to address the harm to society caused by prohibition.

 

Comparing drugs and booze isn't a valid comparison in my book, although I'm not totally closed minded about it.

 

They are all drugs, alcohol and cocaine and caffeine and so many others. Alcohol can be addicting and habit-forming, so can cocaine. Addiction implies withdrawal when the body is deprived after long periods of use, just like caffeine.

You see alcohol as vastly different, but that's just because our irrational drug policies have formed your worldview. We criminalize a drug like marijuana with no known fatal dosage, but drugs like alcohol, tobacco and caffeine are used openly with no criminal sanction.

We claim to have learned something from the Volstead Act, but most people cannot apply the lesson learned there to our other drug policy. Humans are funny.

If you are really curious about this, try to get the book LICIT & ILLICIT DRUGS written by Consumers Union back in the 70s. Licit and Illicit Drugs : The Consumers Union Report on Narcotics, Stimulants. 9780316107174 | eBay

 

Well. I think we all knew this already.

 

Is COVID still the subject of this thread, or am I too late?

 

Is this the part where we say in unison, "We told you so!"