Desmond Tutu: I’d pick hell over an anti-gay heaven

Read more: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news...pick-hell-over-anti-gay-heaven/#ixzz2aGZOKgUJ
Follow us: @washtimes on Twitter

Bravo Desmond Tutu! Of course Tutu is utterly convinced that - unlike some religious folks - God is not homophobic. So I don't think Tutu worries much about actually having to go to hell over this issue.

 

Tutu is a nut. If he's supposed to be a Christian then he should buy into all of the Christian doctrine. And the Christian doctrine as written in the Bible which he supposedly believes in clearly states that certain people will be excluded from the 1,500 mile-sided bejewled golden cube called New Jerusalem.

Of course all such religious fairy tales are complete non-sense. There is no heaven, hell, paradise, nirvana, Valhalla, happy hunting grounds, or reincarnation. Once you die you're done forever.

But the point is that if he professes to be a Christian then he should buy the whole fairy tale without exception.

 

Tutu is an Archbishop. He played as big a part in ending apartheid as Mandela. For a religious nut he's remarkably sane.

 

Apartheid ended for many reasons. The white government could have easily killed Mandela and Tutu and all of the other militants if it had wanted to.

 

"Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination."- Leviticus 18:22. (KJV)

“You shall not put the Lord your God to the test, as you tested him at Massah"- Deuteronomy 6:16 (NIV)

Desmond Tutu would be wise to retract his words.

 

Well, I suppose that unlike you Tutu actually has a clue about Christian doctrines and is perfectly well aware of the Biblical hermeneutics that led many churches including mine to fully accept homosexuality..

 

Seeing that you take Leviticus so seriously I assume you never wear clothing woven of two kinds of material (Lev. 19:19) .
Well, good on you if you do, but most Christians don’t bother. Probably because they believe that “He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant—not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.” (2. Cor.3:6)
What’s in the Spirit?
“Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.’The second is this: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no commandment greater than these.” (Mark 12:30-31)
Seems to me that Tutu is on the safe side and whereas South Africans who commit “corrective rape” and murder lesbians are probably not.

 

Seeing that homosexuality is a banned behavior that your church has accepted has it also accepted liars, thieves, adulterers, witches, murderers, and idol worshipers as well? If not, why not?

 

See my answer to another poster here : http://www.politicalforum.com/relig...hell-over-anti-gay-heaven.html#post1062924637
I'm sure you will be able to figure out the answer to your question yourself from there. Seeing that your main interest seems to be trolling I'm not sure whether you'll ever openly admit as much though.
However, I'll give you a little clue: I would not like it if somebody stole my wallet, so I can't condone theft. I would not like it if somebody disrespected the consensual love I share with my partner, so I can't condone homophobia.

 

IMO you're missing the point. The Christian doctrine as written in the New Testament specially states that those behaviors and acts will prevent people from getting into the golden cube. That's not to say that if a person doesn't engage in those acts that he will get into the golden cube. But it does say that if a person commits those acts that he will not get into the golden cube. That is a bedrock statement of Christianity as written in the New Testament. It's repeated several times in various books.

Now Paul did give people an out. In 1 Corinthians chapter 6 he forgave all of the "bad" acts except murder if people changed their behaviors. A person could have been a liar, thief, adulterer, drunkard, or homosexual but he would be forgiven once he became a Christian and stopped doing those things. But the deal is that a person can't continue to do those things and be a true Christian. However, once a murderer always a murderer. The intent is to nudge people into becoming "better" people by getting them to abandon "immoral" acts by offering them a chance at eternal life. So to get that they have to follow certain rules.

If a Christian thinks that homosexuality is acceptable for him to engage in then why shouldn't it also be acceptable for another Christian to spend his days in a bordello? After all, they are both "loving" their neighbors.

In reality it doesn't matter what a person does. We live till we die and then we are forgotten as if we had never existed. There are no gods, angels, demons, devil, heaven, hell, paradise, happy hunting grounds, Valhalla, or eternal life. It's better to be a "good" person than to be a "bad" person because it results in less interpersonal conflict and people can live more satisfactory and happier lives.

Therefore, if anyone wants to engage in homosexual activities then he should. However, he should not claim that Christian doctrine allows it because it doesn't.

 

One of the reasons there are so many different denominations is that there's no such thing as the "Christian doctrine", honey. And if there was you'd be the last person on earth to point it out to me. If you are interested in avoiding interpersonal conflict, stop trolling.

 

Each person is responsible for his own emotions. You may want to do something else if you are so easily ruffled by comments on an internet discussion board.

 

I thought I knew the NT reasonably well for a non-believer, what do you know that I don't? What 'doctrine' is in the NT that necessarily overrides those quotes which Junobet has provided?

 

Romans 1:32 says Though they know God's righteous decree that those who practice such things deserve to die, they not only do them but give approval to those who practice them.
I hope Desmond is not disappointed if he is wrong. If he disregards God's word in this point, he must at other points as well.

 

The matter of fact statement that you’re just trolling is not emotional. Sorry, if it annoys you that not every single Christian is a fundamentalist and that neither you nor the Pope is to decide what’s Christian doctrine and what’s not. But here you go: that’s also just a matter of fact statement.

 

A) Context! I doubt very much that the average 21th century homosexual engages in homosexual acts because they are idol-worshippers (Romans 1:23)
B) If you really think homosexuals deserve to die, it seems Romans 1:31 applies to you: “they have no understanding, no fidelity, no love, no mercy.”
C) Tutu is an Anglican. From an Anglican point of view the Epistle to the Romans are not Gods word but Pauls, which are inspired by God in some places but not in all. Which is why Anglican woman don’t have the slightest qualms not to wear veils. They see 1 Corinthians 11:6 as based in the customs of its time and not as based in Gods eternal wishes. Seemingly a lot of fundamentalist evangelical women don’t have qualms about not wearing a veil either - they’re just less honest to themselves when it comes to their view of scripture, which IMHO is not only inconsistent but also idolizing.

 

Paul specified what the Christian doctrine is. And you know what he said should happen to people who deviate from it.

Galatians 1:8 (NKJV) =

"But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed."​

 

What we have of Paul are rather casual letters written to the Christian congregations he founded/had previously visited. Just like the rest of Biblical texts these letters are wide open to interpretation. Different Christians/Christian denominations differ both on how much authority they ascribe to Paul and on what his theological teachings actually were. I know you’d love it if all Christians were right-wing evangelical fundamentalists and homophobic (*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)s, but here you go: it's a fact that a lot of them aren’t. You’ll have to live without that clear-cut picture of the enemy.

 

You are missing the point, it is explicitly stated inside the New Testament that homosexuality is a sin. For example, Romans 1:26-27: For this reason [idolatry] God gave them up to passions of dishonor; for even their females exchanged the natural use for that which is contrary to nature, and likewise also the males, having left the natural use of the female, were inflamed by their lust for one another, males with males, committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the recompense which was fitting for their error.

Even so, the Bible warns about testing God's will and his word, Desmond Tutu has made the very unwise choice of publicly defying the word of God.

 

Everyone disregards parts of it. Even the most devout literalist.

 

Been there: http://www.politicalforum.com/relig...ll-over-anti-gay-heaven-2.html#post1062926487

 

That has nothing to do with it. Homosexuality is sin. Whether they are temple prostitutes or at the Blue Oyster Bar homosexuality sin, not just sin, but an abomination before God. Tutu and the Pope are wrong. They are sacrificing Gods word to suit the lunatic fringe.

 

...to their own peril...

 

what issue? Hell is of the mind. There is no place called hell. It dont exist!

And then, if a life is chosing not to procreate and that it is not responsible for it's own life, then you can realize why a self is so indulgent in self inflicted hell.

.Nature did not confuse the person, people do.

.


.

 

He that curseth his father, or his mother, shall surely be put to death. -- Exodus 21:17

You would be wise to watch yours, unless you killed your children for talking back to you.