Desmond Tutu: I’d pick hell over an anti-gay heaven

Oh dear, you seem to have serious problems understanding parables. Seeing that they were Jesus’ favourite teaching tool, it comes as no surprise then that you don’t seem to heed His teachings very much.

So let me try to explain: I never said Jesus was a homosexual. Some people think that John 13:23 is an indicator that He was, but personally I think that’s reading too much into these verses and shall remain agnostic about Jesus’ sexual orientation. I don’t judge people by their sexual orientation anyway, so I don’t really mind.
The parable in Matthew 25:31-46 tells you that you are to treat everybody, and especially the poor and social outcasts, like you would treat the Lord. “‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’” (Matthew 25:45) And you may just find that your treatment of homosexuals will backfire one day, when the Lord tells you that when you did not stand up for gay rights you did not stand up for Him.

 

Or realize that they dictate their own lives and are solely in charge of how they behave and treat others.

 

Paul was preaching about Jesus in the 30s. He was the first to write about him and he created the Christian rituals and beliefs. Paul created Jesus.

 

You are only going by the books of the bible. There are documents not chosen for the bible that mention Jesus of Nazereth that were written earlier than Acts, which was Paul's first work.

 

No it will not. God is serious about sin, he will judge us all, and if we are not in Christ we will be disappointed. That is not to say that we should not love homosexuals because that is mandatory, but to tell them its OK and that God will forgive them is a lie. He will for give them, or you or me, if we are repentent and humble before the righteous holy judge that knows us through our masks.

 

See: and I think it’s a sin to tell people that the love they share is sinful when it is a precious gift of God. Guess we’ll both have to answer our own conscience and be judged by that on judgement day. May the Lord have mercy on our souls.

 

You are wrong. He does have mercy for those that live his truth. What was posted above is ecumenicalism, not truth. Romans Chapter one demonstrates that what was posted above is wrong.

 

Christianity teaches that in Heaven people do not indulge in sex.

Matthew 22:30...and Jesus answered "At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven."

No marriage=no sex
So the point is moot.

 

If you care to read the Epistle to the Romans you'll find it's all about not getting anal (forgive the freudian pun) about the law and that gentiles and Jews can both be saved. Sounds ecumenical to me.

 

That is true. But he also talks about the fact that God is not playing, especially with those who practice an abomination like homosexuality.

 

Paul didn’t even know what homosexuality is. The term and the concepts that we have about it now came up with sexology from the late 19th century onwards.
Paul only knew of same sex acts in the context of pagan worship and exploitative relationships between masters and slave boys and even the most avid modern LGTB-rights activist would probably regard such exploitative acts as bad.

If you interpret Paul’s words like the most narrow-minded of Pharisees would have interpreted the OT-laws, you are little better than those Christians in Paul’s time who thought that you had to be circumcised and never eat shellfish in order to be saved. Remember: “The letter killeth …”.

 

The West is now becoming a hell as the family unit has deteriorated as the building block of good citizenship, largely because of the new culture of wide open sexual promiscuity among the unmarried young people.

Each of the seven foundational social institutions is crumbling and with it, the barbarians and neighboring patriarchs of Islam, N. Korea, China are at out gates.

Hell is about to break lose.

 

Oh brother.
1 Timothy 1:10

the sexually immoral, men who practice homosexuality, enslavers, [fn] liars, perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound [fn] doctrine,

Get real.

 

I am real. So real that I’m aware that it is nonsensical to translate the 1. Century Greek word “ἀρσενοκοίταις “ as “men who practice homosexuality”, when the word “homosexuality” was first ever used in 1869 and certainly has different connotations in the 21th century than what the author of 1. Tim. associated with "ἀρσενοκοίταις".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality

So in view of modern day Christian homophobes I cannot help but thinking of 1. Tim. 1:3-7:
"3 As I urged you when I went into Macedonia, stay there in Ephesus so that you may command certain people not to teach false doctrines any longer 4 or to devote themselves to myths and endless genealogies. Such things promote controversial speculations rather than advancing God’s work—which is by faith. 5 The goal of this command is love, which comes from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith. 6 Some have departed from these and have turned to meaningless talk. 7 They want to be teachers of the law, but they do not know what they are talking about or what they so confidently affirm."

 

LOL

Nice try, you guys.

27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

 

Thppppppppt, what ever...

From an actual condordence:


Printed from the Blue Letter Bible

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English Standard Version (ESV) 1 Timothy - Chapter 1 Change Version-------------------------------------------King James VersionNew King James VersionNew Living TranslationNew International VersionEnglish Standard VersionReina-ValeraNew American Standard BibleRevised Standard VersionAmerican Standard VersionYoung's Literal TranslationDarby TranslationWebster's BibleHebrew Names VersionLatin VulgateTextus Receptus (Greek)Morphological Greek New Testament
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none—Jhn 1:1 KJV
square—[Jhn 1:1 KJV]
curly—{Jhn 1:1 KJV}
parens—(Jhn 1:1 KJV)
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1Ti 1:1 Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by command of God our Savior and of Christ Jesus our hope,


1Ti 1:2 To Timothy, my true child in the faith: Grace, mercy, and peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Lord.


1Ti 1:3 As I urged you when I was going to Macedonia, remain at Ephesus so that you may charge certain persons not to teach any different doctrine,


1Ti 1:4 nor to devote themselves to myths and endless genealogies, which promote speculations rather than the stewardship [fn] from God that is by faith.


1Ti 1:5 The aim of our charge is love that issues from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith.


1Ti 1:6 Certain persons, by swerving from these, have wandered away into vain discussion,


1Ti 1:7 desiring to be teachers of the law, without understanding either what they are saying or the things about which they make confident assertions.


1Ti 1:8 Now we know that the law is good, if one uses it lawfully,


1Ti 1:9 understanding this, that the law is not laid down for the just but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who strike their fathers and mothers, for murderers,


1Ti 1:10 the sexually immoral, men who practice homosexuality, enslavers, [fn] liars, perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound [fn] doctrine,
Lexicon / Concordance for 1 Timothy 1:10


1:10 πόρνοις ἀρσενοκοίταις ἀνδραποδισταῖς ψεύσταις ἐπιόρκοις καὶ εἴ τι ἕτερον τῇ ὑγιαινούσῃ διδασκαλίᾳ ἀντίκειται

English (NASB) Strong's Root Form (Greek)
and immoral men g4205 πόρνος pornos

and homosexuals g733 ἀρσενοκοίτης arsenokoitēs

and kidnappers g405 ἀνδραποδιστής andrapodistēs

and liars g5583 ψεύστης pseustēs

and perjurers, g1965 ἐπίορκος epiorkos

and g2532 καί kai

whatever g1487 εἰ ei

g5100 τις tis

else g2087 ἕτερος heteros

is contrary g480 ἀντίκειμαι antikeimai

to sound g5198 ὑγιαίνω hygiainō

teaching, g1319 διδασκαλία didaskalia

 

I just gave you the reason why this concordance and others like it must have gotten the translation wrong and all you do is just quoting it back to me?

 

That is because you, and they, are wrong.

- - - Updated - - -

Here is what it says in KJV.

For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;

 

Oh yes, in this case the KJV is the translation much closer to the original. And I put it to you that men who truly love each other and express this love bodily do not defile themselves. Just as Jesus doesn’t care what you put into your mouth (Matthew 15:11) He doesn’t care where you put your penis as long as you do it with love and a pure heart.

 

That is beyond rediculous, going to any lengths to attempt to justify the perverse practise of homosexuality. Pathetic.

 

Think about it my homophobic friend, and while thinking about it don't forget what the Lord told us are the greatest commands.

 

Ah, the false 'homophobic' label that seeks to instill guilt, coupled with a misapplication of scripture also intended to instill guilt. Fail.

 

"I the LORD search the heart and examine the mind, to reward each person according to their conduct, according to what their deeds deserve." (Jeremiah 17:10)

Your conscience is your own business. I'm not the one to instill guilt, but:

"9 For God did not appoint us to suffer wrath but to receive salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ. 10 He died for us so that, whether we are awake or asleep, we may live together with him. 11 Therefore encourage one another and build each other up, just as in fact you are doing.


12 Now we ask you, brothers and sisters, to acknowledge those who work hard among you, who care for you in the Lord and who admonish you. 13 Hold them in the highest regard in love because of their work. Live in peace with each other. 14 And we urge you, brothers and sisters, warn those who are idle and disruptive, encourage the disheartened, help the weak, be patient with everyone. 15 Make sure that nobody pays back wrong for wrong, but always strive to do what is good for each other and for everyone else.

16 Rejoice always, 17 pray continually, 18 give thanks in all circumstances; for this is God’s will for you in Christ Jesus.

19 Do not quench the Spirit. 20 Do not treat prophecies with contempt 21 but test them all; hold on to what is good, 22 reject every kind of evil.",

(1. Thessalonians 5:9-22)

 

Using scripture to justify what God has called an abomination rediculous.

 

I'm a Lutheran/Reformed Christian and hold the principle of Sola dear to my heart. That doesn't mean I read the Bible literally or believe in verbal inspiration, but I take Scripture very very seriously.
So let me tell you that thinking that scripture 1:1 equals what God thinks is ridiculous, especially seeing that scripture itself will deny that notion. And I fear you are turning scripture into an idol, if you do that.