Do you have any friends or family who are gay?

Women claiming "bisexual" seems to be the in thing, and probably 75% have at least experimented. I'm younger than a lot of posters though. Guys it's different. If there are a bunch of "bisexual" dudes out there, they keep it to themselves. Relationships have become extremely trying and awkward in America. Almost destined to fail. As a %, not to (*)(*)(*)(*) people off, I think women are naturally more codependent than men are. So them hooking up with each other, in a time where both sexes are struggling to find their role in heterosexual relationships, makes perfect sense.

 

Off on a tangent, my "closet" has a second door. My family are mostly very religious. I've not only left the church, but my religion as well. While they know I'm "unchurched", they don't know that I've come to consider myself an agnostic. It's not something they would respect, and since I don't want another "fire and brimstone" speech, I've decided to let sleeping dogs lie. Dealing with the whole gay thing was hard enough; opening that second door just isn't worth it.

 

I have about 5 different gay friends (male and female) and a lesbian step-sister.

I was already well aware my friends were gay when I became friends with them. They're fun people. My bf and I often invite over his co-worker and her girlfriend for dinner and we'll drink and play a game of Scrabble. A good time had by all. =)

My relationship with my step-sister did not change at all when she finally came out. She definitely keeps her orientation secret from the rest of the very Catholic part of my step-family such as her aunts, uncles, cousins and grandmother.

Although I must also admit I did not grow up with my step-sister. She lived with her mom the whole time I was growing up and I saw her only a few times a year. Even now it's less and less. Just holidays mostly. But her and her girlfriend are very nice.

 

Just friends. No family. The guys tell some of the best gay jokes. The women don't talk much to guys. Most of the ones I've met are seriously damaged.

 

It's long been held that women's sexuality is more fluid than men's. How much of that is due to societal disapproval is open to debate. There are bisexual guys out there, but they don't necessarily find the gay community any more accepting than straight society. I don't envy any man being bisexual.

 

On the other hand, I've known my share of lesbians who don't fit the stereotype of being man-haters. More a matter of men holding no interest for them, so they can't be bothered.

 

How about gay co-workers? I know of two other gay men where I work, and two lesbians. But none of us are in the same departments, and it's not like we hang out together. I'm probably more 'out' than the rest of them, since I've been with my partner 11 years and he's attended work events with me that include family. As far as I know the other two guys are both single. One woman had a partner but they're not together anymore. Not sure about the other one - have seen her with another woman away from work, but haven't talked to her enough to know if they're a couple.

 

I have had several friends come out in the last five years or so. Some of them were expected while others were frankly quite a surprise. The revelations did not change my relationship with them in any way to my knowledge, although I can now shower with my lesbian friends and my wife doesn't mind one bit.

 

I wouldn't call them man-haters, but I would call them heterophobes.

 

I agree. Most people who "hate" the opposite sex are those who are attracted to the opposite sex and feel as if no one wants them. Most gay men are as one of the girls, as gay women are one of the guys.

 

Interesting. I've no doubt that there are heterophobes among both lesbians and gay men, but I wouldn't say it's the norm.

 

Those are stereotypes. Although to be honest, if I had to pick amongst hanging out with gay men, straight men, straight women, or lesbians, I'll take the lesbians first, then straight women, then gay men, with straight men at the bottom of my list.

 

LOL. Um.....? Not a good way to prove my stereotype wrong. I know there are masculine gay men and feminine gay women, but they typically are "bisexuals". I have had plenty of gay and bisexual coworkers, and the flamboyant dudes usually hang with the chicks gossiping all day long and the bulls hang out with the dudes, spittin', cussin' and whistlin' at the gals.

 

Not to my knowledge in terms of family. I'm a bit of a loner and don't have a large circle of
friends. I have no close friends, to the extent that the topic would even be brought up.
However my sister is in the theater arts, and subsequently have met quite a few gay folks
that are friends of hers; though she herself is not gay. Honestly they all seem like nice people
to me. I may not condone that sort of stuff but the dignity of the person transcends all else.

 

Lesbians first, eh? I knew this guy who had a live-in girlfriend who was being hit on by her female boss. The guy thought if they got together, he might be able to join in a threesome. (Some guys have dirty minds, 'ya know.) Anyway, his girlfriend left him for her boss.

 

but who you are is not determined by how you have sex. Perhaps those of you who think you see hatred around every corner actually are attracted to those types of people????

A male family member is gay and who cares? He and his partner head to their bed like the rest of us couples do. A family female friend is gay and the same is with her.

But, neither are into the whole agenda thing or trying to act as if they are a different race or gender. They are just one of the gang.

To us, they are just Dick and Jane (names changed). We can all sit around and play cards and they aren't any better or worse players than heterosexuals.

Maybe I don't get all caught up with it the way I see some on this forum do. I view being gay as something that you do, not who you are.

Having heterosexual sex is what I do but it's not who I am.

My hunch is you'll find more people like me who view you just as schlubs like the rest of us. We don't care how you have sex any more than the next guy down the line. We don't want to hear about their sexploits nor do we want to hear about yours. We'd rather discuss the problems created by liberal policies and what must be done to fix this country and get it back on the right track.

 

And WHO in this forum said that was the case (as you imply by your language above)?

Why are you generalizing about some MYTHICAL set of people who "see hatred around every corner"? I don't know any homosexual people who see anything like that, though I do know MANY who have regularly encountered homophobia, discrimination or irrational animus; and that, is more than ENOUGH right there. But hatred around 'every' corner? Come on, be reasonable.

You should talk to more people who cannot testify to what YOU suggest above; it is NOT a small number of homosexual people who meet people that openly oppose their sexual-orientation. Some men/women are literally disowned by their families and/or un-friended... because of their sexual-orientation alone. Some of those people were rejected as CHILDREN. Do you KNOW what you're talking about here? (I don't think so.)

That is definitely the way it SHOULD be, but it is not so commonly as you may know or suggest.

You don't seem to 'accept', that some gay people are 'activistic'... you may not agree with their reasons for being so, but it is a reality that life has led or compelled them to be exactly as they are. So gay people are simply 'out' in every way... just like certain 'straight' people are (even those who go on ego trips). Gay people do have an important agenda, and that isn't necessarily 'sinister' or 'unimportant'.

It is cool that your relationship with those close to you is like that, and be certain that most of us who are actually "gay", tend to know that there are MANY 'gay' people who are just REGULAR folk (yes, no different than ...gasp... "heterosexual" people). But that doesn't account for homosexual people who regularly encounter and endure a whole range of social NEGATIVES, for no other reason than having a homosexual-orientation.

You can only speak for yourself. And if I knew you personally, I'd love that about you... still I would know that the way YOU are, does NOT necessarily extend to those near or around you (I've made that mistake before, myself).

To a large degree, that is true. But once certain people start becoming truly AWARE of what someone BEING "homosexual" means, things can become more 'tentative'. For example, it is one thing to talk casually about some guy you just saw (as guys tend to talk about women), but it is a fact that some 'straight' guys DO NOT know how to accept or deal with that in our society. To them, "gay" is okay as long as it is out of sight, out of mind. Reality would have it that gay people are as human and expressive as straight people. That is, UNLESS WE HIDE IT WITH A PURPOSE... what's "gay" about us, is often as obvious as what's "straight" abut others. There is a way the guys look at women, and there is a way that guys who are gay, look at guys. And there is a way we talk about them too. I don't expect ALL straight people to be OKAY with that, but it is something that makes sense to keep in mind; if you don't, you just make yourself a sitting duck for hatred, abuse and even physical attack.

People like you don't wear signs or post those characteristics on Facebook.

Now hear/see this... not every gay guy is hyper-conservative (like myself) about sex. Sometimes heterosexuals and homosexuals TALK about their 'romantic' interests or experiences (not necessarily graphic/nasty)... sometimes being "gay", means showing that you're gay (the same stuff you/I would see in many straight people).

I understand; but sometimes people DO talk casually about romantic and sexual interests, encounters or experiences. I respect that you and your friends have a good relationship (I have great straight pals also)... but some of my gay/straight friends DO talk about sex in ways which would certainly show/expose their sexual-orientation (and I think that is just fine).

 

The friend that I mentioned in my last post has a partner who he's been with (and currently lives with) for about 5-6 years. We have a very close-knit group of friends and he brought his partner around a couple weeks after they started seeing each other. His partner is a great guy and has been part of our group ever since. We all regularly get together and hang out.

Almost everyone was immediately accepting of both my friend coming out and his partner. The wife of one of my other friends is a very conservative Christian and she had an issue with it at first, but once she got to know them both, she came around and now has no problems.

Everyone is comfortable, we all have laughs over both harmless gay and straight jokes, and no one has any issues talking about/listening to sexual stuff.

Interestingly, my one friend (with the Christian wife) has a slightly younger sister who is also gay. I've known them both and grew up with them since I was fairly young, so she's like a sister to me. She also hangs out with us on occasion. The last time I saw them, her current girlfriend was grinding with my fiance at a local bar. Everyone just has fun - it's no big deal.

And yes, I got it on video.

 

True, but to pretend that it plays no role whatsoever in how we view ourselves or are perceived by others would be an equally extreme and ridiculous position. The truth is somewhere in the middle.

Ridiculous.

1) I don't go looking for hate around every corner.
2) Anti-gay attitudes (whether or not they rise to the level of being hate) are common, not rare. Oftentimes they can be subtly expressed. Maybe you don't see it because you aren't the target and it doesn't affect you personally.
3) It is never amusing when straight people, who haven't had our experiences, try to analyze us.

That you don't care whether they're gay or straight would be commendable. Being uncaring toward their situation is another matter, and you come off as being the latter.

Maybe you should pay less attention to the rhetoric and more to what lies underneath it: The long marginalization of gay people as if we were something alien. Treat us like we don't belong, and that's the result you get - people noting the parallels with racial and gender discrimination and the hatefulness that accompanies it.

It doesn't mean we think we're a different race or gender. That's either your misinterpretation, or a case of taking what is true of some whacko and trying to apply it to the rest of us who are gay and who dare to say something about the way we're being mistreated.

There's no shortage of straight people who think gay people make fine company - so long as we're being good little (*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)s who don't present any reminders of our difference. Not saying you're necessarily one of those people, but there are a LOT of them around.

You might be amazed to learn just how much we censor ourselves around straight people - way beyond anything straight people feel compelled to do as a matter of etiquette.

And what we're telling you is that such an attitude frankly stinks, because being gay is a part of who we are, not merely something we do. It informs our experience as much as being straight informs yours. You just aren't aware of it because there are no social consequences to being straight in a world where you comprise the overwhelming majority. Since there are for us, our orientation naturally plays a magnified role in our identity. Not saying I'm gay first and anything else second. I'm saying that the crap I've had to put up with because of being gay has forced me to be constantly aware of my status as 'different' as a matter of self-preservation.

If you stopped having sex you'd still be oriented on the opposite sex. So the pretense that it's only something you do is rather laughable.

Like Johnny said, they don't advertise. I think it's fair to say that many, perhaps most gay people have learned to mistrust and be skeptical of people's claims that it's a non-issue. It's only a non-issue so long as we do nothing to assert our equal place in society.

Thing is, we can't say 'gay' without hearing "you're cramming your sex lives down are throat!". The perception that being gay is only about how we have sex goes a long way toward explaining why that happens. If gay only equals sex to you, then you really don't have a very good understanding of what it means to be gay.

There are plenty of other threads where that might be appropriate to the topic. This isn't one of them. What's more, it's illustrative of a desire to stick one's head in the sand when it comes to issues affecting gay people. It's an "If we just ignore them, maybe they'll go away" attitude. Which isn't going to happen. It communicates to us that you don't consider our problems important. What you don't seem to realize is that so long as those issues exist for us, it's hard for us to move on to others of greater shared importance - especially when our participation in the political process is so obviously not appreciated. How dare we think that we have an equal stake in society or have an opinion about what's happening in the world. [/sarcasm]

So don't whine to me that you'd rather be discussing something else. Go - discuss it - somewhere else. I promise not to miss you while you're gone.

 

And I also have a few friends like that. Very few. Know that you are a rarity, not the norm.

 

If only that were the reality in practice. So often it's not.

 

Yeah, I know. It wasn't meant to disprove the stereotype.

 

Yep, but I'm atypical in that regard.

Apparently he had difficulty distinguishing between fantasy and reality. The idea that if your girl gets together with another girl they'll make you one lucky guy is definitely in the realm of fantasy. Exceptions where it does happen are just that - exceptions.

 

I was just trying to discredit the myth of the "man hating" lesbian. Love/hate are intertwined. For instance, if you had a lover who "hated women", you can guarantee he isn't really gay, has serious issues, and you should get away as fast as possible. I never heard of a serial killer killing the opposite of what they are attracted to. "Men hating" lesbians are a myth, though I do believe there are "men hating" feminists. That is obvious. Like "women hating" misogynists.

 

I do not judge how you think, and you have no business attempting that with me. I personally do not believe how you have sex makes you who you are. I will never understand why you think it does. But, Baskin + Robins has 31 flavors because we don't all agree on vanilla.

Also, nobody that I know wants gay people to sit down and be quiet. We just don't view gay people as being any different other than they choose to engage in sex with the same sex partners. Good grief man, with your perspective then all single people would also be the targets of abuse by married people.

That's just not the case. If i say that Judy and I went to Bonaire for diving or I said that John and I went to Bonaire for diving, most people I know would rather hear about the dive and could care less who went with me. Unless of course Judy or John were there and they'd want to hear their report as well.

Honestly, when someone says xxx is gay; I think to myself; so what? If you said to me, hey, I want you to know that I'm gay, my reply would probably be "do you want a medal or something"?

What does it matter? What you would be telling me is that you have sex with other men and frankly, why do you think I would care? if we're having a conversation or hanging out, it's because we have common interests and not for any other reason. How does the method in which you have sex change that?