Does "Israel" have the right to exist ? (2_

http://jfjfp.com/?p=25463

jews for justice for palestine


and i quote:

‘Nobody does Israel any service by proclaiming its “right to exist”.

i know it has a right, but is it right to require the right as being right?

ge it, right?

or as they say

 

Thank you Bishadi for your input and for continuing this thread , and reminding us of Independent Jewish Voices who dare to speak out against Israel's discriminatary policies
against non-Jewish Palestinians.

May I also add a link to Part 1. for easy reference.

http://www.politicalforum.com/latest-world-news/208268-does-israel-have-right-exist.html#post4478107


cheers.

 

Given most of the nations in the world, including the Palestinians, recognise Israel.......then it exists. Where on earth does "right" come into it?

However, they do not have a "right" to exist on Palestinian land.

 

because bigots ask for recognition

nor in jeruselem

be sure to tel aviv

 

It's not nice to essentialize the Palestinians like that, Bishadi...

 

I don't think bigots do.....I think bigots don't care what other people think.

The ones that continually want reassurance and reaffirmation are the insecure, those of low esteem, those with trust issues etc. Funnily enough, over compensating for those failings can often result in a person coming across as self-opinionated, arrogant and aggressive...often paranoid.

Wonder if that can be applied to countries...after all, they are led by people.

Certainly not East Jerusalem.

But it seems to me that if the UN isn't going to bother to enforce their own decision to internationalise it, and that is looking less and less likely as the decades pass, then there is no fair option but to share it, as otherwise that is just another road block in the path to peace.

Like it!

 

Talon , instead of blabbering a load of irrelevent piffle , how abt getting back on topic + address Bishadi's lead post . DID YOU READ Jews for Justice article by Brian Klug ? I post his link again :

Does Israel have the right to exist? The questions that question raises :-

http://jfjfp.com/?p=25463


cheers.

 

Does Israel have the right to exist? That's like asking if a woman has the right to say no to being raped. Let's not forget here that the Palestinians are the bad guys. People get way too into role reversal in the Israel/Palestine conflict. Trying to turn up into down, left into right, black into east, north into purple, and so on.

Let's not blame the victims here sheerly for the intent of being politically correct.

 

Independent Jewish Voices do not debate at all Israel's right to exist. In fact, they take it for granted. However they seem afraid to acknowledge the obvious for fear it will torpedo and overwhelm their message, and they are right. It will!

If one acknowledges Israel's right to simply be then how can one advocate for those that expressly have denied Israel's right to simply be? It doesn't add up, does it?

It must get very painful straddling that fence and we can all stand up for Palestinians in instances where the IDF has crossed a line (if indeed they have, when dealing with terrorists).

But Independent Jewish Voices tread an extremely fine line and just because they take it for granted Israel has a right to the nation they got in 1947 from the UN Partition Mandate the people who have violently (violently) opposed Israel from day one do not share that view. And they have provoked, attacked, manipulated opinion through staged "atrocities" and done everything else they can to make sure Israel ceases to be.

As long as these about 650 signatories consider Israel an "occupying power" they completely ignore the Nuremberg Principles (Jews, of all peoples, should consider the need for these principles that came out of the 1945 London Charter of the International Military Tribunal) that condemn wars of aggression as a "supreme international crime". That Israel should forfeit the land (if these people got their way) lost by a twelve nation Arab military force bent on destroying Israel is a monstrous irony and were it not Israel, and not a body (the UN) that has been notorious for standing against Israel, it's doubtful any other nation on earth would have to give up land it took while being invaded.

But then, who else but Israel would have to withstand an attempt at extermination from all of it's neighbors at once? And then suffer the consequences for merely having survived the ordeal?

 

Why should the evil hated Semites be the "bad guys"? Is such not Nazi ideology? Ideology which resulted in the Holocaust? Is it really best for Zionists to loyally follow the Nazi example? What happened to "Never Again"?

There are good and bad people on both sides, both sides have their faults and both nations have the right to exist.

 

You still oppose Palestine to this day, as we speak. It is really silly to blame and condemn the hated Semites simply because one unconditionally opposes their nation and hates their people. Often, Zionists are hypocritical bigots, condemning themselves by blaming and hating others.

 

they have nuclear weapons in what they call their holeee land................ i agree, they dont care about much of anything but their self proclaimed 'chosen ones' state

i agree.............

some dude claims, 'wipe off the map' and now they have aipac trying to cause war

bibi aint a people

jeruselem is not israel by UN mandate

could care less what the bigots claim

the head bangers wall is not for any good to any life

the city has almost always been shared but the bigots think it is theirs by force.

nothing peaceful about that, especially coming from bigots!

are you a bigot?

i ask because your post share siding with idiots, bigots, oppression and stupidity?

 

so NO is your answer

ie.... that is what the women would say. Just as that is what palestinians would say to bigots taking their land by force.............. NO!

now that is a stupid line item...........

the jewish palestinians, christian palestinians and a few muslim palestinians would perhaps disagree with you.

i know............. the conflict is, that bigots moved into a land from all over the world, and took lands, property and oppressed a population of people.

Heck them bigots picked up from the ww2 style of dividing people and made a concentration camp called gaza after uprooting peasants from their homes.

just ashkanazi why they would do that

i agree.

pigs have sold to the world that because of what hitler did, they deserve to take over a land that dont belong to them


and idiots now believe they have the right........

i dont............... from idiots believing they are 'chosen ones' to another group of idiots that believe some dude died for their sins, to another group that kisses the dirt five times a day................... lots of wingnuts on this earth based on ignorance and religious adherance and now the airports are a mess, and military spending is the greatest waste of tax payer funds on the earth.

 

there is no debate

and that issue is over

they occupy jeruselem, which is against international law

fact!!!!!

the best line on the post

oooops, that may be a tie

if the 12 arab nations used their military, israel would not exist

israel exists as a nation based on force

not based on the people within chosing to become a country.

that fact is what idiots do not address

 

Nope. Palestine rejects Israels right to exist. Explicitly stated in the Palestinian charter and the Hamas manifesto.

 

Oh ! for feks sake , are you soft in the head ? How many more times are you going to repeat that crap which has been rebutted / debunked countless times ?

 

Actually, Abbas applying a non-violent method of encouraging Israelis to accept the nation of Palestine next to Israel. Unfortunately, the Israeli response to such is often racist generalizations, words of extreme hostility and unconditional rejection.

The US middle-east policy is thus fully retarded. I feel sorry for Obama.

 

He needs to encourage the palestinians to accept an Israeli state. Thats why the US opposes this UN bid for statehood because the Palestinians still refuse to recognize Israels right to exist.

 

Palestinians went to the UN for the very purpose of accepting Israel next to the nation of Palestine. The US government is currently struggling for any last tiny bit of credibility on middle eastern affairs that it may once have had:

Russia calls new Israeli settlement construction “major concern”
28 September, 2011, 17:43
http://rt.com/politics/russia-israel-settlements-palestinians-peace-585/

 

Well, who are we to deny the religious fanatics their hopes and dreams.

 

LOLOL No they are going seeking acceptance of Palestine.

 

This is the sort of non thinking propaganda I get for
taking the time to get all my facts and figures straight. The problem is I don't hate the Palestinians and as I've often said, I wish they would love themselves more than they hate the state of Israel.
In the 1947 U.N. Partition Mandate Palestine opposed having their own territory because that meant giving the Jews their own land too.

 

I suppose that you'd not be averse to having squatters move into your house and leave you less than half of it ?

 

Think what you like.

Most Zionists say I'm a bigot.......so if a Palestinian supporter says it as well......then I must be a pragmatist and a realist.......because neither side appreciates me.

 

This assumes that Palestine was the "house" of stateless Arabs.
It was not. http://www.zionism-israel.com/dic/Land_question_in_Palestine.htm