Does the Republican party really think Trump was cheated?

No, but if you see one there, please share it. My brother in law is Mormon and loves a good Mormon joke!

 

I'd give you 50 thumbs down for that ludicrous response, but PF doesn't give us that option.

If you are unable to see the glaring difference in the way the media has handled this, and realize that directed dishonesty in the media screws everyone sooner or later- I'd say you deserve it.
But the rest of the country does not, and can't survive with it in place. The comment wasn't speaking of the way it screwed just Trumps election, it spoke to the way it will screw all elections in the future- and all Americans. You won't really have a vote, and party won't really make a difference.

These people aren't doing this for you, they're doing it for themselves at your expense. YOU have been used- it's still happening, and they will do it again.

Fox favors Trump, no question. But it also reports facts, including negative ones and often criticizes Trump- and lets viewers make their own decisions about what to believe.
You seem to have no comprehension of the difference between reporting in favor or not in favor- and the manipulation that big tech has done. That's exactly the way they like it-
They use you and you haven't got a clue.

 

No sir. The facts behind my humble opinion are:

1. No politician helps the other side get votes.
2. Every action by a politician is to gain votes.
3. No politician can be trusted.

Dems would never have forced mail in ballots if they didn't think it was an advantage.
Reps would not be trying to force ID requirements if they didn't think it was an advantage.

For you to claim it did not have an effect on the outcome, you would have to have mind reading abilities. It is your opinion and I respect that.

 

Which option for 'antiestablishmentarianists know Trump's voters were cheated'?

 

Again seem you think, falsely may I add, that only you understand reporting versus manipulation. You actually believe that Shaun Hannity spouts fair and balanced output. I say output because practically Hannity is a talking head not a journalist. Talking heads do just that talk as in put out output. Tucker, Margaret Carlson's son spouts at what can best can only be considered tainted pro Trump noise s which is in total contrast to your contention that facts emminate from Fox Network.

You falsely and rediculously accuse me of not comprehending that I somehow know not the difference between reporting and manipulation. Fox outputs the false narrative of voter fraud instead of facts. Why is it false? No FACTS have every been brought to the table either to or through the news media or to the courts to substantiate fraud causing an effect on the results. This hoax this farce claiming that there was fraud began long before the first ballot was even printed. The chief of the fraud parade, Donnie himself told the nation and the world totally without any factual evidence that the election is based on fraud. He accused even before the first vote was cast that he would consider the upcoming election fair ONLY IF HE WON. How convenient! How totally lacking of facts or may I say totally lacking of integrity. This concaphony of falsely accusing all of the election officials, governors of states, election workers , state legislatures even judges , both paid and volunteers and American voters of committing fraud. Why do you think such a substantial portion of Trump fans believe that the election was based on fraud? The answer is that they were manipulated to believe so by Trump and most importantly by Fox network media. But you go merrily along and claim that Fox let's viewers make their own decisions what to believe.
The facts speak loudly against you contention that Fox does not manipulate.

Really man look in a mirror and speak into that mirror and tell that mirror how factual Fox's word output about this election is. Then when you finish talking congratulate yourself how well you have manipulated yourself into believing that this entire election was a fraud. Then congratulate yourself on how well you have swallowed the lies that Donnie has been spouting like perpetual flatulence of falseness.

 

Some do, some are just humoring the president for his endorsement

 

What has this to do with anything I posted?

 

It doesn't matter that you see a distinction between mail in voting procedures. It's a states' rights issue.

 

Excellent post!

I am personally astounded that seemingly intelligent people, like poster @spritigide, can fall for that drivel Trump is serving. Maybe in Trump's first year, there was still an excuse for them. However, if you are still a Trumper after what he has done in the weeks since the election, there is no hope for you.

 

What unprecedented feats?
-A booming economy? Ask the the 11 million who are still unemployed
-Warp speed? It was private companies developing the vaccines at record speed, two of the three frontrunners are not American companies. For sure, warp speed isn't a bad initiative, but ANY president would have done it, Hillary too, if she had been elected instead of Trump.
-Quality of lives? Anybody can boost the economy in the short term by increased deficit spending. Especially when being handed a good economy by the predecessor. No skill involved.

You gotta stop believing in the Trump koolaid, It tend to turn brains to mush.

 

So, DeJoy removing mail sorting machines, slowing late delivery trips and overtime for workers prior to the election was all coincidental?

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/08/21/usp...bring-back-removed-mail-sorting-machines.html

 

Whether or not @spiritguide is right or wrong, he is objectively writing on a level that is clearly higher than yourself. I wish there were some liberals on this board that could write at his level, it would make the dialogue more interesting.

 

Sure. Dems knew the more people voted, the higher chance they had to win; so, logically they encouraged people to vote, in person or by mail.
Reps knew it too, so they desperately tried to prevent people to vote, although they publicly claimed they wanted everyone to vote.

Since Trump didn't want to acknowledge the virus, he directed his supporters to vote in person and falsely claiming mail-in ballots would lead to fraud, which his supporters considered a ban (from their god) of mail-in. Many Dems voters, fearing the virus, choose the mail-in option.

This explains why the mail-in votes were largely in favor of Biden. No mistery, it was Trump's dumb mistake caused by his uncontrollable ego.

BTW, Mail-in has been existing for a long time in many states; this option has been used by many Repubs and Dems alike in the past and on November 3 as well.

 

That makes no sense either. Are you saying that states have a right to say A is the same as B? How about red is the same as blue?

 

Too late

 

Oh, I have no doubt that poster @spritigide writes well, although I have caught him plagiarizing in the past. He should write better than me, since I am not a native English speaker. That's why I wrote "seemingly intelligent" in my previous post. If someone is intelligent and can write well, how come that they fall for the con man in chief? How come they can convince themselves that the election was stolen against all evidence? How can they NOT see behind the thin veneer? I just don't get it.

 

I was always good at math. In high school I played around with odds and figured out how to compute the odds of any particular number coming up with a pair of dice. I didn't gamble, but was just good at figuring the odds. At a high school reunion, fifty years later, a friend I had not seen since left high school said that was the thing he remembered most about me. In my careers as an adult life, numbers were a large part of my life.

I initially thought Trump won and when the numbers started going against him, I suspected fraud and I still do.

However, as more and more states went against him and the numbers required to change individual states were against him. At that point I concluded he could not win. No amount of suing was going to change that.

Most people do not think that way. In the case of republicans, because they are republicans, they said fraud caused Trump to lose.

However, democrats are not innocent in this either. Because they are democrats they think Biden won with not much more thought than that. They are in complete denial that fraud likely did take place.

Personally, I would like Trump to concede now. However, I would also like to see the next four years spent in an exhausting study of our elections to minimize fraud in the future..

 

Good post. Now, tell what you said in this post to your fellow conservatives when they still claim "stop the steal" without the evidence.

BTW: I don't know many people who claim that there was absolutely zero fraud in the election. With roughly 150 million votes cast, it would be virtually impossible to not have some mistakes, or flat out fraud. Since you are good with numbers think about this: Toss a coin 150 million times and count the heads and tails. Now count the original data 100 times. Will you get the exact same number of heads and tails in every count? No. However, except for systematic errors, the counts should come within experimental error. The ONLY way to assure absolutely ZERO uncertainty would be to not count any votes at all.

What really irks me with this: Republicans who claim a stolen election are basically accusing half of the country as being criminals, either by flat out criminally tampering with the vote, or by aiding the initial crime. That's insulting, just as much as claiming covid numbers are fake because doctors forge death certificates.

 

Yes. You count the same pool of votes multiple times and you will repeatedly get the same number. However, that does not mean that they were valid votes to start with. The problem is that there is no link between the votes cast and the person who supposedly cast them. That link disappears early in the process. Just counting votes will not work. We need some really innovative ways of detecting fraud. Innovative ways that have not been thought of before. For instance, with mail in voting we only know that ballots went out. Votes came back and were counted. We cannot determine what happened between those two events.

 

Have you ever counted large numbers? Do you know how difficult it is to get the 100% correct count. The 2nd law of thermodynamics (entropy), tells you that it is statistically exceedingly difficult to pick one distribution out of 100s of millions equally likely distributions. Doing so requires work. The larger the number of overall distributions is (i.e. larger number of votes) the more work it requires to get the correct i.e. unique distribution of votes. Therefore, the goal should be to exclude distributions that affect the outcome of the election. Vote counting auditing systems already do that. There is no point counting EVERY vote 100% correctly, if the margin of victory is 10,000s of votes. That's exactly the basis that allows news organizations to call states before all votes are counted.

 

Please don't respond. It's reality that offends you, not arrogance. How dare somebody speak truth the the BS and expect you to pay any attention. That the issue, and you will learn nothing by denying what you don't want to know, or by insulting those who dare point it out.

 

Counting is a minor part of the problem. It is determining whether only those people who should vote, voted and whether those votes were what was actually counted. A really comprehensive review.

You are in denial. We should do a top to bottom review. Not just go back and recount.

 

Come on, you're smarter than that.
We are in the midst of a world wide pandemic. The economy SHOULD be in shambles.
However, the Dow is at a record high, when it should be in the tank. I bought 14 stocks in January- four of them have doubled, one has tripled, and only one is in the red. That is more than extraordinary.

My own business, which has customers around the world, has lost most of the international sales due to massive shipping problems resulting from virus issues. We've lost sales to distributors in Germany, England and Australia. However, as of the end of November, we were over 20% ahead of all of last year in total revenue- and that too is utterly amazing. Koolaid? Only if you call record levels of cash koolaid. The strength of the economy in the face of the conditions fully relates to the policies of the Trump administration to promote the economic engine rather than milk it to death. Obviously you have no grasp of how this is possible, but you should have no doubt it's true. Given that this economy is the very thing that gives us the ability to survive pandemic damages, we should all be very grateful. Biden however sees the policies which enabled this as a problem, because they were Trump's ideas- and so he is planning to "fix" it.

Trump didn't inherit a good economy from Obama- he inherited one slowly and naturally healing from the crash of 2008/9. Trump gave investors confidence in the future- and the market got hot the day he was elected. Hot, on the spot- because we knew that we finally had a commanding business man at the helm, and good things were going to happen. Biden is the one inheriting a great economy- and most sharp investors stand ready to bail out, because we all know Biden's going to kill it. He's not a business man, he doesn't understand that 10% of something is always more than 100% of nothing. Thus he thinks raising taxes automatically results in more money to spend, and roasting the Golden Goose for dinner sounds delicious. One year from now- revisit this and see.

The unemployment rate that hit almost 17% when the virus and shutdowns hit, has been reduced to the 6% bracket today.
The value of homes is growing faster than ever- yet the sale of homes is so hot that many more than usual are sold on the first day. The house next to me sold this fall for 20% more than I thought possible, and I used to own and operate a design build construction company, I am experienced in the housing market.

Trump was pushing for faster drug approvals before the pandemic- and while the drug companies do the development, Trump removed the roadblocks to speed that have never been moved before, gave those developers the benefit of full government cooperation and access to resources, then greased the skids, and made sure that funding was there to go full speed ahead. Trump didn't invent any vaccine- but he envisioned and enabled the concept that made the time breakthrough possible. I assure you, the scientists involved here recognize the value of those things.

It's easy to say any president could or would have done it- but Trump did. Your assumption that others would have flies in the face of history, entrenched politicians have never done anything with any degree of speed or efficiency. Their expertise is to stand in the way of progress and need, not to promote it. They are bureaucrats- Trump is an achiever. That's not to say he doesn't have his faults, but that he has abilities no entrenched politician has demonstrated in your lifetime.

Your grasp of spending too- is immature. Debt spending is a double edge sword; done right and when necessary it clears the path, done wrong and you smite yourself. There is a time it is a wise necessity- and a time it is foolish waste. Politicians don't know the difference because their prime concerns go no farther in the future than the next election, at best. Their nature is such that they are comfortable burdening the children of the next century with the consequences of their financial irresponsibility today.

Reality is always there to see if you are willing to quit deceiving yourself.

 

I witnessed voter fraud first hand and reported it.

The worst of the cheating occurred in PA and Michigan. Plenty of working class people were cheated by the big city ballot infusions.

I would refer you to the hundreds of whistle blowers who also witnessed fraud.

If you want to claim that what they observed wasn't real, I would suggest to you to learn how to think for yourself instead of questioning the integrity of those who were right in the middle of the corruption.

 

I agree completely. At the same time the scientists said it could be years before a vaccine was developed, Trump was saying it would be done before the election. He missed it by a week, but was years closer than the scientists.

So much for just saying "science" and claiming that is the solution to all problems