Employers are fed up with college 'waste,' opt for skilled blue-collar workers instead

Not if Unions are involved. THATS the real issue here.

Pay in the trades has cratered because it was allowed to crater. The government ALLOWED contractors to “sub” to “companies” with paper trails to sub-sub-sub-sub contractors allowing illegals to be hidden. Once those companies started doing this, wages went down to meet the lowest common denominator, and allowed those “companies” to keep more money for themselves


And FTR, I think that the government needs to do more to punish those at the top who do this. You want to stop immigration, start punishing those who USE that labor, and ot will stop. Hence, use Union Labor that doesn't allow illegals, and uses a real skilled labor force

 

The right loves hiring them, and pretending like its not their fault for creating the demand, especially with prohibition being law of the land.

 

won't make fuel cheaper

 

Yes it will. It will cut the cost of transportation to the refinery

 

won't make a difference

 

Your anecdotes are pointless. Earnings data paints a clear picture that college graduates earn more than high school graduates. The idea that experience and education are mutually exclusive is as wrong as it gets as well. You get out of college what you put into it though. If you're looking for the college experience and not taking your studies seriously, you're not going to be useful, and you might not graduate. If, however, you put some effort into it and have a plan about what you want to do, then college is a great way to get ahead.

Generalization anyone? I'm a millennial. I show up at 10am somedays, and on Fridays I'm out of the office by 1pm. Work is not my life, and it never will be. Yet I've been at Shell since 2004. Strange.

I think we're in different industries, so dangerous isn't the word I'd use, but they have the capacity to screw things up.

We hire a graduate engineer and put them to work as a glorified engineering tech. They do some really important work, but they're not making any actual decisions.

 

You'd use the word if you had 900 feet of strata hanging over your head and some newb wants to test an idea 100's of experienced workers have tried tested and failed before

 

That may be an artifact of the country you live in. With the country I live in seems to use people from college with less professionalism.

 

Depends on the field. I worked as a diesel mechanic for a number of years, and I went to college to learn how. It was an associates of applied science but still a college degree.

with the advancement of tech yes

No they won't trip tell you that. They say oh you have that skill that's great nine of the guys I hire have that.

No it's like not just thinking that people who work outside of with their hands are lesser than people who slowly die in cubicles

 

I'm betting it's because he didn't want to read a lot of resumes. People like that don't like work.

 

It's people like this old guy that caused so many to waste time and money with college.

If you're getting an engineering degree, law degree, medical degree yeah college is the way. But MBA... That's a waste of time and money these days at least that's what people do when they are to lazy to be doctors or lawyers or not smart enough to be engineers.

 

What ignorant nonsense. Successfully completing a college degree requires developing a strong work ethic.

 

I talk to a lot of young men and some young ladies about life and career and it's interesting to me how much a college graduate will not do. I remember a fellow that was real sharp with math and he liked working with his hands but he wanted to get an accounting degree. Not a bad degree, I tried to talk him into being a machinist he can make way more money and never worry about audits.

It didn't say this directly but he seems to indicate that this was a problem because of social status. People that do this kind of work are seen dumb less motivated.

But really I think the idea is that your skill pays the bill not your pedigree. You can't buy your way and do it you have to start at the bottom and earn your way up. That's a lot of work and I've known Machinists that have lawyers jealous of them.

I think this is the primary reason why people go to college they don't want to do this it's too much work.

 

Depends on the degree. If you have to work to earn it like an engineering or science degree then yeah.

 

Yeah, whatever...lol

 

I think you place too much value in the opinions of academics they are The gatekeepers they're not intelligent they're gatekeepers. I've known people that barely squeaked by in school and flourished in field. I've known people that excel in school and just utterly failed and field.

I don't have a son but I cared for a boy for a few years, he was my partners little brother. He lived with us from 12-19 years old. He wanted to go to school for photography and I was glad he liked photography and I said his about I buy you a DSLR, and you learn how to use it. And he did he didn't need to go to college for this he had an eye for it. And does it professionally today.

This was much better than wasting 2 years and 30k in photography school. He runs into people his age that are in the field just starting out.

College isn't always the right choice and forcing it on your kids is profoundly stupid.

 

Actually no the value of skill is based on the market no Republican or Democrat really has any control over that.

The only thing the government really does to devalue that labor is steal money through income tax. Both parties do this but it seems like for now at least Republican steal less

 

Have taught part time at colleges and universities for over 30 years. I have taught all kinds of subjects of law, business and social sciences. I have Master's degrees in Law and Applied Psychology and all kinds of professional designations but I have worked 35 years. I am no academic.

Academics get Ph.d's and usually do research and hate teaching and have no interest in teaching. Honest. They teach because if they are hired full time they have to. They hate it. They want to be left alone to research. They are hired for the prestige of showing they have Ph.d's but most of them have no idea how to teach of have people skills and in fact graduate skills teach and mark their tests.

Today most colleges and universities hire part-time lecturers so they do not have to give them any employment benefits or seniority.

Someone with a Ph.d hired rarely teaches their research area and does it to pay bills.

People teach part-time to pay bills and/or they may like teaching.

I have a very large mouth the size of the Grand Canyon and love talking and I was a stand up comedian and still can be so teaching is fun for me and students love me because I am high energy and mentally ill.

Listen the campuses today are completely uptight. Woke standards are just a new way to censor people you disagree with.

The kinds of things I teach are the kinds of subjects its hard to be woke about. Every now and then I get a student who tries to manufacture a complaint because I will not give them a high mark. Certain colleges and universities will not hire you unless the student surveys come back saying your ass shines. Your ass can't shine unless you give all students A's. Its a joke. The schools know it. They compete for students so want their students happy. Consequently the marks mean ****.

Let me be even more blunt. Today's generation does not read. They use a cell phone. Their brains are programmed to no more than 10 seconds. They are addicted to the cell phone and can not sit. In class they play on the cell phone or look at porn on their lap tops pretending to listen.

They go through the motions to get a degree. If they can cheat they cheat. Plagiarism is the norm. Students will not properly footnote and cut and paste answers they never read that do not even match up to the questions.

Marks are inflated, students are brain dead, professors do not give a **** and go through the motions and the administrators of these schools care about one thing-academic fees coming in to generate maximum profit.

Now that all side, there are really good universities and colleges. It depends on the student, professor, subject.

I can tell you with certain "hard" or vocational skills like say plumbing, electricity, gas lines, photography, graphic arts, computer programming, subjects where you have to learn specific skills with your hands-its legit. Those are dedicated instructors and students.

Students with realistic expectations and clear goals do exist and they will get where they are going in spite of all the obstacles because they ignore all the ****, put their head down and learn for the sake of learning.

Medical students and graduate science students kick ass. Engineering students if they do not drink beer study. Certain subjects they bust themselves open to succeed.

So I can give you negative generalizations. Its easy. However I can also say its all relative. If you see the ****, that is what you see. If you want to find the academic or vocational excellence you will find it.

Now look I am Canadian so our country takes in 7 billion a year in academic fees from approximately 500,000 international students. Our governments and academic institutions have bloated themselves on this revenue and so they gorge themselves on enrolling international students mostly from the Punjab region of India and then China. Corrupt immigration consultants who own or work with the colleges bring in these students telling them if they get a degree in Canada then work the equivalent of one year full time but part-time over the duration of their studies, they can apply for permanent residence.

So I see students who have never come to class, can't speak or write English, send students to write their tests. I see students working way past the hours their visa allows. Why? They need to pay back their consultants for getting them to Canada and the academic fees of about 16 to 20 thousand a year.

I have witnessed first hand students being pimped by other students, recruited into organized crime in their ethnic groups, driving trucks illegally, on and on.

You name it I have seen it.

I had a guy come in class high on Meth and was not even in my class and he tried to bite and punch me and grabbed him by the seat of the pants and neck and brough him outside in the winter and put him in a pile of snow and held him until the police came and the idiot Dean of the school told me he had no idea who this student was. I have quit schools where I have found unethical practices. I have tried my best.

I have taught at respectable universities at the graduate level and the students are worse then at colleges with their demands for high marks and sheer illiteracy.

I have been called every name in the book and the latest which is par for the course with any conflict in the Middle East because of my Jewish last name I am accused by students of being anti Muslim and Zionist but interestingly its never by Muslim students who have always been respectful to me and me in return and we both hope to hell for peace.

It is what it is and the stories will range. You have great schools and some out and out money making mail order businesses.

Your students range from moron imbecile lazy *******s to brilliant hard working great innovators. What can I say. Do I hate students. Hell no. I love them. They teach me every day new things. The bad ones I ignore. The good ones I embrace and feel privileged to teach and inspire and tell them never to give up hope and push for excellence and most importantly believe in their potential and for phack's sake pursue what their heart tells them not what external sources pressure them to do.

I am 67. People love me and hate me. I love to be hated. If I was not I would not be doing my job. I teach all young female students to stand their ground, all immigrants to understand barriers are to climb and disabled people inspire me. I am not woke. I am a blunt middle of the road realist but my job is to teach as many perspectives as possible for perceiving and handling any issue. I never tell someone a one size fits all solution and if someone asks me an opinion I tell them mine is not better then their opinion but my best insights come from what the phack I have done wrong in life not what I did right and how I turned a negative to a positive thanks to others. That is the lesson. No I do not dictate.

You see how full of **** I am but its my way of sharing that world and telling you its not all bad or good but both.

 

It wasn’t for me. My career was dead in the water without it in the early 1980s. I owe my net worth to it. Knowledge of finance, economics and business law paid big dividends for me.

As for being “too lazy,” or “too dumb” maybe, I am not good enough to be be what you think I should be. That’s your problem, not mine. I am a published author and respected among coin and political items collectors. I am well off and a happy retiree.

 

That's just wrong. MBA's are the key to many good careers. Almost all bank administrators start out with an MBA, it's also a common degree to go on to law school with.

And, since you don't seem to know. An MBA is not an easy ride, not by any stretch of the imagination.

 

Yeah back in the day it was probably worth a lot more hell an art degree in those days was likely lucritive.

I was referring to people who get them now. College is way more expensive and a lot less valuable these days.

 

How many people who attempt succeed?

 

I couldn't find that stat. If you do, post it.

 

Well I've come across a lot of people with mbas and various blue color Fields I've worked in. If they're supposed to keep you out of that they're working very well.

Or maybe the ones holding them realized they can make more money with a real skill

 

Many people that graduate College never directly use their degree. I would assume MBA's would be the same. It's true that a good mechanic or machinist can make a salary competitive with a college grad, AFTER they've spent a few years at it. To your point you can apprentice in a trade AND earn while you learn. But those programs pay a substance living and often take many years to complete. It depends on what you're looking for I guess. I graduated with degrees in Computer Science AND Mathematics; mostly because at the time I got my CS degree it was so top loaded with math you almost automatically got a Math degree as well. (it actually took a few more math classes to meet the Math requirements, but I felt it was worth the effort.) Back to your point. It was often the case in my career that a young guy with a certification might actually be better or as good at ... say networking ... than I was. And they made good money. Where I was valuable, not that I couldn't hold my own in ... networking ..., but where I came in handy is in fundamentals or deep in the box knowledge, that was required to get my degree but not part of a certification. When I graduated it was almost necessary to have a degree in CS to get hired, but that quickly changed.

The upshot is I'm glad I got my degrees they served me well. Would I go to the expense of a classical education again, yes "I" would. Would I recommend it to my grandson? Only with the caveat that he could be learn and earn sooner if he went the cert rout, but he would miss things like computer math or calculus if he did the cert. College level Computer Mathematics is fascinating and not something many people study. Once you've taken calculus you never look at the world or universe for that matter quite the same way. And you miss the broad education of civics, history and other electives, which really round you out at a personal level.

My point is IF you have the time and motivation AND money a classical college education is it's own reward, no matter what field you go into.

(As this thread indicates not many people, even business's really appreciate a person with a degree. Even some colleges have lost sight of what a degree should mean)