Fascism and banning free thought in Florida

Isn't that what happened in FL? RonDon was elected by a majority and then proceeded to make a series of government decrees and passed a number of laws taking parental decisions regarding schooling out of the hands of parents.

 

Okay, let me expound a little upon my hypothetical.

Let’s say that because we know that it is very important to have a healthy and well-fed population, we have public restaurants. This is where people will go to have their meals. Everyone will live in a particular Restaurant District, and their property taxes will be used to fund the restaurant in their district. The Board of Dining will be elected to oversee the operation of the Restaurant in one’s district, and they will hire the food preparation professionals. The board will also set the nutritional standards that must be followed. Restaurant district will have a great effect on real estate prices, and prospective home buyers will endeavor to get into a good district.

You would of course be free to “home-prepare” or go to a private restaurant, but you still have to pay your real estate taxes no matter what.

Given that hypothetical scenario, do you think it would be strange for someone so ask, “Why does the government have to be involved in our dining?” And do you think an appropriate answer would be “Well, why shouldn’t it be?”

 

Which is kind of an example of what I’m objecting to.

 

So...........how do you think decisions about schooling should be made? Surely you recognize while parental input should be a part of the process the vast majority of parents are unqualified to make judgements about teaching techniques, etc.

 

100%. Children need to be taught facts. Not beliefs.

 

No idea what you're talking about. ALL of us can.

 

If you consider your fellow citizens to be that unqualified, then how are they qualified to choose the right school board members?

 

They should be made by the people arranging for the schooling, just like in anything else. People decide what they want.

 

People choose elected officials to make informed decisions, theoretically because said officials possess some degree of expertise in order to make them.

 

You're asking for a chaotic situation few if any parents I know would want any part of. Myself included.

 

And if there were no public schools, people could ask people with degrees of expertise the very same questions.

 

Okay, that’s fair. My suggestion would be to allow those who DO want a part of it to have their real estate and income taxes returned to them so that they can be used to educate their children.

 

As I said before, DeSantis will not succeed while there is a democratic system in place. He can do damage to some individual children, but he won't change education. The professionals in the government, especially the teachers, will not allow him to do that. He would need to establish a dictatorship.

Trump is another example. He did a lot of damage, but couldn't fundamentally change our system. Professionals in government made sure of that.

Your "hypothetical" is nonsense. Education is not just "important". It's fundamental. And it HAS to start at a very young age. I have no idea how that would conceivably equate you your restaurant metaphor. There is simply no basis for comparison even as a "hypothetical".

But I combined these two because they illustrate the framework under which you are operating. Which is a purely ideological plane completely detached from reality.

Here is the difference between thinking in abstract ideological terms vs being grounded on reality. If you don't have your feet firmly planted in reality, you are vulnerable to ideologues who create all sorts of conspiracy theories. In reality, public education is handled by educators. And fascists can certainly make their job harder. But politicians are temporary, and they will not stop the professionals in our education system from doing their job. THAT is reality. So we should help make their jobs easier because fascists may leave some scars. Children are not going to suddenly "learn" to hate gay people (like DeSantis expects) just because they can't watch a movie with a gay character. Fascists (or extremists in general... because left wing extremists have also attempted this) have NEVER fundamentally changed anything unless we allow them to establish a dictatorship.

 

Dismissing my hypothetical because education is fundamental seems silly when you realize that eating is also fundamental, perhaps more so. But I guess you’re dodging that one. Nothing I can do about that.

What do you think of allowing those who want an alternative to be refunded their per-pupil share so they can use it as THEY choose to educate their children?

 

Are you suggesting a person, let's say a school board member with a MA or a Ph.D in education, isn't more qualified to make decisions about school policy than the average parent?

 

No, I’m suggesting that an average parent can always ask someone with a MA or Ph.D in education about what are the best options for their child’s education.

My suggestion that the government ought not be involved in schooling is often met with the response, “well, people are too stupid to make the correct choices about their children’s education”. But I’m saying that are people with degrees in education that can guide them.

 

Why should he have been fired?

He was not teaching anything.
He was just stating a fact.
Why should telling a vindictive parent the truth cost him his job...... twice?

Thanks,

 

EVERY individual can feed themselves one way or another. Not many children can educate themselves.

It's just a plain old dumb comparison at EVERY level.

I already answered that. If you mean refund the taxes they pay, nobody pays taxes for educating their children. They pay taxes for living in an educated society. And the people who pay for this have the absolute right to DEMAND that your children be as educated as the rest.

 

Children educating themselves?? Who even suggested such a thing was possible. Certainly not me. They have to be educated by others. Just as they have to be fed by others.

Maybe they’re trying to create a more educated society. I think it would be fair to rebate their share so they can make the improvement.

Unless you think that inner city public schools produce the best educated society.

 

The question I answered was if he should be "persecuted" for saying that. By which I understand if he deserves to be "harassed". The answer is yes, he most certainly deserves it.

Well, at a minimum he's an idiot if that was his response. Whether we want an idiot as principal of a school or not may depend on other factors.

 

CA is gutting math education in public schools.

Math is racist, don't you know?

 

NOW do you understand how absurd your metaphor was? I knew you'd get it!

Not with MY tax dollars they won't. We don't pay to educate OUR children. We pay to educate everybody else's children. So those tax dollars you want to give these people are MINE.

 

Nope. I never said my metaphor was absurd. I said your idea of children teaching themselves was absurd.

I’m not talking about your tax dollars. I’m talking about rebating THEIR tax dollars, so that they can do a better job of creating an educated populace.

 

That's what DeSantis says
https://www.npr.org/2022/04/18/1093277449/florida-mathematics-textbooks

 

[QUOTE="Chickpea, post: 1074333127, member: 136597. I never said my metaphor was absurd. I said your idea of children teaching themselves was absurd.[/QUOTE]
If you compare it to people feeding, which people CAN do, then it WAS your metaphor. But that's just ONE level of absurdity. I can't even think of any level at which the comparison is not absurd.

You ARE talking about MY tax dollars. Those are the ones used to educate their kids. Just like theirs are used to educate mine.

In any case, how much are we talking about? Of all the taxes paid by corporations, sales tax, income tax of the whole population. How much of the taxes of a typical middle class family making... let's say... $70 K (I believe that's the median) a year with typical deductions go to the education of one child? Which is what, according to you, they would get in refund, right?