Finnish FM: Israeli occupation is 'apartheid'

Israelis need to use their "organized leadership" and "standard military" to protect Israelis in Israel, instead of forcing apartheid upon hated Semites in Palestine. What good is leadership and military when it is misused for the wrong purposes?

 

Actually i spoke of 1948 and before that,

But, i agree ofc we need to pull off, hard thing to do when you get bombed during "negotiations", 3 rocket attackes yesderday night.

 

WOW I am shocked!! The whole world is rising against Israel? Where have I heard this predicted???

Behold, I will make Jerusalem a cup of trembling unto all the people round about, when they shall be in the siege both against Judah and against Jerusalem. zech 12:2

"Behold, the Day of the LORD is coming, And your spoil will be divided in your midst. For I (God) will gather ALL the nations to battle against Jerusalem" (Zechariah 14:1-2)

God said this would happen and it is happening before your eyes. He also said he would intervene. Be warned. Attacking Israel is a mistake fore any army.

 

A) YES they did, . - In addition to their army , Zionists had terrorists gangs, you're right , the Jews did have an organized army , however , I hope you'd appreciate , non-Jewish - Palestinians had none. Neighbouring Arabs who attempted to come to their defence proved totally inadequate. So , does that justify the way ZIonist expelled the indigenous non-Jewish residents ?

B) I've not only listened to those Jewish bigots the settlers , I've also listened to other Jewish minorities , TRue Torah Jews .JewsNotZionists, Jews for Justice, Righteous Jews, Gush-Shalom, Illan Pape, Benny Morris, Uri Avery, Gideon Levy, Shlomo Sand, Gilad Atzmon, the Refuseniks, ETC and many , many more .
I've also been to Israel - a Holy Land Tour, J'lem/Nazareth/Bethlehem, etc incl. Hebron , it was short but think I've seen more than most other tourists saw.

btw - I appreciate in all conflicts there are MODERATES on both sides , but its always the extremists who call the shots/lead the way for the "moderates " to follow.

Frankly - IMO ,Majority of Israeli Jews are NOT MODERATES, typically they just want a comfortable life and dont care a fek abt anyone else.

Gilos - how many non-Jewish Palestinians have you befriended ? have you ever been to a Palestinian's home , met his family, children , sat down have a meal with him. ? Invited a non-Jew to your home ?

SHALOM .
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Is that really the best you can come with ? a load of biblical Bull sh** ?

Do youy really think anyone cares what your god is caimed to have said ? What language did your god speak ?


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Pokerface - did your god actually speak to you or are you merely repeating the crap your parents + teachers fed to you ?

 

Have the bible as base for political arguments.

 

Yep they didn't have an army until after the declaration of independence and essentially all those "terrorist gangs" were amalgamated.

The Palestinians had terrorist gangs too. They also had the military might of 5arab armies.

the fact that these arab armies were incompetent (except the Jordanians) isn't Israel's fault. The simple fact is that the arabs and palestinians lost. And it doesn't justify expelling non-jewish residents, but it does explain how they could do it since they conquered those areas.

I'm not sure you actually listen to them, more that you hear them over the voices of the majority (Israeli moderates). Since you've actually been there on a short tour you are no doubt an expert in Israeli political demographics.

Not to put too fine a point on it, but the majority of Israelis want peace, they are willing to swap land for peace, and would support the creation of a non-militarized Palestine, although only a very small minority actually supports right of return.

But hey, it plays so much better to paint all Israelis as evil zionists. I guess its a schtick.

 

Right idea, wrong side. The Arabs never wanted the Jews and fought to remove them from day 1.

 

Of course. Any country would resist invasion. The indigenous jewish population of Palestine got lost amongst the influx of hundreds of thousands of European ' cousins '. They were as much victims of the invasion as Palestine's indigenous arabs. Check out Avigdor Lieberman as a prime example of immigrant bigotry. He's about as ' Semitic ' as Bjork.

 

Except it didnt happen that way, the didn't own the land remember. The Brits owned it and organized it... the Arab's just hated the idea and have fought it with violance ever since.

 

They did own the land. They had deeds going back long before the British. Theyd built the cities. And the industries, and the farms, and the ports, and the roads.

If someone invaded your land, would you no longer own it? Does America own Iraq?

 

That's all pretty irrelevant in real terms, the British were in control and could do what they pleased with it. Fighting and winning two world wars there tends to do that. I know its easier to ignore the realities to prop up a pathetic argument but it doesnt change the past, no matter how much the Arabs choose to live in it.

 

Here is a seemingly simple question:
Who currently owns the land?

So, lets work from recent times only please. Who owned it in the past doesn't matter, it's who owns it now that matters.

The Ottoman empire owned it, and then the British (mandate).
So who did the British give it to? Israel was established in one section, and the other section - who did the British give it to?

From this, the owners and boundaries are clear. Whatever happens after this is the normal process of war/conquering.


So who owns the Palestinian areas?
Who did the British give the control of land to?

 

The law is the law; you're absolutely right. So tell us why Israel insists on arrogantly ignoring those very same UN resolutions that you're now clinging to as justification? You can't have it both ways pal, and neither can Israel.

 

As ever , it depends who you're listening to .
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I believe you , " very small minority actually supports right of return. " - JewsNotZionist/Neturei Karta, Righteous Jews etc.,


I believe you , majority want peace, they want to be left in peace to enjoy the fruit of their ill gotten gains, hang onto the stolen lands

I believe there' considerable Anti-Arab discrimination - protests against Arab familiies buying properties i in Jewish neighbourhoods.

I also believe people like yr minister Lieberman - Shas +Yisrael Beiteinu, etc.etc.. and this :


A survey finds that 76% of Israelis favor 'transferring' 'Israeli Arabs' to a 'Palestinian state reichlet if one is ever established. Kahane favored 'transferring' Arabs out of Israel to Arab countries, but never envisioned a 'Palestinian' reichlet. The poll was commissioned by the Knesset Channel.
The poll, conducted over the internet, included 668 adult Israelis representing the entire political spectrum, cites a 3.7% margin of error.

The poll asked participants whether as part of an agreement to establish a Palestinian state there would be justification to demand that Arabs with Israeli citizenship relocate to Palestinian territory.

Only 24% were totally against the idea.

Of the remaining 76%, 29% said all Israeli Arabs should relocate. An additional 19% said only Arabs living in close proximity to the Palestinian state should relocate, and 28% said transfer should be decided based on loyalty or disloyalty to the State of Israel.

The data reflects Jewish Israelis' distrust of Arabs national priorities. 50% said Arabs identify first and foremost with the Palestinian cause and see their Israeli loyalty as secondary. 40% said Arabs identify solely with Palestinians, and only a single percent thought Arabs identify wholly with their Israeli identity.

Notwithstanding their belief that Arabs' right to retain their property was not obvious, 52% thought Israeli Arabs were not discriminated against by the state. 43% said they were discriminated against and one percent remained undecided.

http://israelmatzav.blogspot.com/2008/03/76-of-israelis-favor-transfer.html
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Axial

Are you serious here? By your logic the jews should hhave accepted their extermination since the nazis controlled so much of eatern europe.

Or the soviets should accept nazi control of the same.

Or we should all consider Tibet a chinese territory and advise tibetans to forget they were ever tibetan.

Or americans should never have fought for independence since the british ruled the land.

The list goes on...

 

Reduce the poision level of that statement and it can be said on nearly every citizen on earth.
Moderates may become radicals when they see body parts in their streets or see murderers go free only to get a TV interview they are proud of what they did and call for more attacks. BUT, stop the voilence and give a true offer to peace and they will do what's right. many didnt like the withdrawal from Gaza settelments but the majority of Isrealis did not protest.

 

Palestine arabs were led by a charming fellow called Haj Amin al-Husseini, AKA "the Mufti",

The Mufti never viewed himself to be "alone" against the jewish settelment, althou the king of trans-jordan had no problem with the jews - he did see them as future citizens of his growing kingdom, both didnt intend for the jews to really have a state.

Im sure you know of the riots in 36 and prior to them, the pacts with the natzies and the grand schem of the arab league of the middle east and palestine rule in it. im making these points to prove that there were plans being made and clear agendas against the jews even before the mass persecution of jews in europe that caused the jewish refugees.

In Nov 47, when the UN voted in favour of the termination of the British Mandate of Palestine and the UN Partition Plan the palestinian arabs started an aggresive attack against the settelments, while not in the formation of a regular army the arabs did send raids and sniper fire, these attacks and counter attacks by the Hagana lasted until Nov 48 when Israel was created and arab nations invaded.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1947%E2%80%931948_Civil_War_in_Mandatory_Palestine

That initiative did not work well for the arabs, as Hagana gained ground many of the arab chose to flee, many chose to stay (That's how we have 1.5 m "israeli arabs" within israeli borders today, we didnt import then after the war...), those that stayed agreed to be citizens of the jewish state, other thought the jewish state will soon be a memory when the arab nations attack so they preffered to flee and return when the jews be defeated. in 48 the war started.

Its clear to me that the arab leaders that refused reason and drew first blood - are responsible to the 1948 refugees.

 

The bottom line is the Finnish minister is waking up as the rest of the world is to one of the biggest mistakes in history.
Implanting mainly Eastern European criminals and thugs into stolen Arab land.

If Balfour could see ahead he would never have signed that document knowing the decades of horror and trouble it has caused Arabs nations and it's knock on effect to the rest of the world.

Huge huge historical mistake!

 

Well said, Snakesatcher.
The first comment of a 'legal' nature in UN Security Council Resolution 242 is the following:

"Emphasizing the inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by war ..."

I agree with Borat - what is so difficult to understand about that?

 

Yes, it's good to see Borat upholding international law and the integrity of United Nations resolutions.

 

We have the same argument over the Jews and Arabs every day. Am I the only one who grows tired of this nonsense? Let the parties settle this dispute in whatever way they deem appropriate, and end this matter.

 

Albert the exposing and undermining of bigotry is great sport.

Dont you think? By now Im guessing youve become more balanced in your opinions.

 

The Finnish and other countries tell israel to get out of the west bank, it's not even close to say "Israel was a mistake", i know that' how arabs think, but y'know........

Balfour said that a jewish state should be created while not offending the rights of the non jewish natives - as it turned out it was the arabs that tried to eradicate israel, what israel did since then till now is mostly defensive.