Wait, though...Jesus was a prophet who was Jewish--the group that supposedly changed the text from Ishmael being offered by Abraham to Isaac? Additionally, what would be their motivation to make that change--Islam was not around yet?
Ah, thanks. So according to Islam it's the Bible that was corrupted some times during the history and according to Judaism/Christianity, the Quran was a 7th century corruption of their respective holy scriptures? Stands to reason that the religions should not only differ but also accuse each other of something
eh...don't stir the pot--I really want to know what Islam thinks concerning a motivation for corruption.
I'm of course no expert and I certainly wasn't there at the time, but I think the followers of Islam found the idea that Jesus - an important prophet in their eye - should have died such a 'dishonorable' death at the cross repulsive. And as strict monotheists they thought the whole concept of trinity to be a sacrilege. So their explanation for these perceived discrepancies. was that somebody must have messed up the scriptures at the time. Probably to cement the power of the church. Christian bible scientists also find proof for alterations and later insertions in now biblical texts here and there. So the Islamic suspicions may even be justified in a sense. And the Isaac/Ishmael thing seems to be a simple argument about who is the legit heir of Abraham with both Jews and Muslims claiming that they are.
You pretty much got it right. The Quran says Allah SWT (God) brought Jesus (PBUH) up to Heaven and put a decoy in his place to be killed. As for Isaac VS Ishmael (PBUT), true some Muslims and Jews feel that way. But personally, since both were children of Abraham (PBUH) I believe Muslims, Christians and Jews are all. Salam
That's not nice. To provide you with a measure of the insult in this, imagine it was discovered if the Bible said Muhammed was a fraud. We'd see flags and churches burning by the end of the day.
How convenient. Can you please address the reason Jews would corrupt the story BEFORE there is any religion called Islam?
to make themselves believe ie.... the commands, circumcision and even no pork are all egyptian based; why would the jews claim or create an exodus, when they never even left egyptian held lands (canaan was in itself egyptian held)? So the point is, there are many lies and creations within both bible and torah. One that i like to point out is that Joseph is the blood line claimed to be jewish in Matt 1 all the way back to david, but per babble, joseph was not the father of Jesus.......... tell us why that is? another, in the end of all four gospels, jesus was not dead, he just left the area................ where did he go? one of the stories (you find which) said he will be ..... where? what town?
If you get offended because the Quran says God didn't let Jesus (PBUH) get killed on a cross well... And Christians and Jews say he's a false Prophet plenty. Salam
jesus was on the cross a whole 6-9 hours. in the first century most did not know what 'dead' was. Heck up until the 17th century, there was actually a business model to put bells on the surface, with a string to the person inside the coffin just in case they woke up. ie... jesus could have passed out and then the people took him down and he slept for three days. If any of you had ever been in a good fight, then each know that you are in bed for about 3 days, then get up hungry as heck. Same thing, i believe, happened
False prophecy is lightyears away from the fraudulence of impersonation. Anyhow, I can't get offended by any of this. I just like to put things in perspective, is all.
So...where does Islam get the story of Abraham and his near-sacrifice of his son? 1st--I am being respectful of your beliefs, I would appreciate that you do likewise of mine. i.e. I do not call your beliefs derived from "babble." It is possible to disagree and still be respectful. 2nd--Mary IS of the line of David. But even if she wasn't, Jesus was still in the line of David through Joseph--so what if he isn't the natural father? Adoption certainly was not unheard of and adoption is as real a relationship as blood--furthermore, it is unlikely that Jesus would have been registered as adopted considering that would have been scandalous and Mary would have shamed Joseph in having it appear as if another man was Jesus' father. He ascended into heaven. ???
perhaps look into the egyptian works. Because there is no literature as a book of exodus before judaism. And if moses per se wrote exodus as the jewish and biblical followers believe, then the stories of abraham are all within egyptian foundations in some fashion or another. kind of like the 'virgin birth' idea are from well before any new testament. i agree but likewise, when a dialogue is in existence, i expect honesty before belief otherwise, you break the discourse of respectful interactions where is the lineage of mary? (show it) and if joseph didnt have sex with mary to conceive jesus, then josephs lneage to jesus, does not exist. for example; you could be adopted and will not have a lineage to your parents no matter how much you wish too sorry............... no lineage via adoption! Perhaps you need to look up how evolution words within the species of living things actually, adoption was not an option of 'registration' in the first century. the majority could not even read or write let alone have records heck, the pharoahs themselves could barely keep a lineage record and they were living gods of the period. ie... unless royalty most have no lineage (records) much before the 16th century across the earth. a fact you may wish to grasp! But just so you can read it from me personally; the miracle of the jesus birth between mary and joseph is joseph was divergent from the jewish law and used compassion for the human life (mary) and took in the mother laden wih child, which was directly against jewish law of having mary 'stoned' to death ie... the adherance of compassion over belief is what makes that story so beautiful. idiots like to believe, 'god' told him/her...them and that is why they overcame the religious law (which is per se by god, himself) I like to see the beauty found in compassion but i hate the liars. and you know that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Not in Matt...... he did not go anywhere but to another town. And the disciple were told to go there In mark, it claims he went UP and sat next to who he was supposed to be in the first place 'god'. No one has seen 'god' in the fashion many claim so how would they know if he was sitting or standing In luke..... he was said again to go UP to heaven and we all know heaven aint 'UP" anywhere. And the disciples just returned to jeruselem and did not go where jesus said to in matt In john, the claim is he did many 'other' things ........... but he didnt go, anywhere. It is almost as bad as the contradictions of jesus per se last words on the cross............. they aint consistant either. my point; none of the believed renditions are equally representing 'truth' and that is where YOU need to get over yourself YOU cannot claim 'witness' on any of the accounts because the very doctrine you hold as true is inconsistant itself. So either you know what the hell you are representing or you exhibit the very breaking of the COMMANDS themselves (against truth/aganst any and all god(s)) I am educating you and giving you a chance. DO NOT screw with it. be fair, be true, be honest or be flat out judged!
That seems like a reasonable place to look, but I wonder if that is in fact what Muslims think. Do you follow Islam, Bishadi? It's in the new testament. I would assume that Muslims would consider it corrupted as well. It is in Luke. Mary's father Joachim was of the house of David. So? Again--adoption into a house is still "of the line of David." I think you're too focused on DNA concerning the language used. As I said--I don't think Mary and Joseph advertised Joseph wasn't the bio-father of Jesus. That would have bad news for the Holy Family in those times. I stopped reading your post after this point because I saw that you seemed to work yourself into some accusatory snit (I saw "idiots" in your post), and I'm not wanting to play like that.
From Allah SWT (God), through Jibreel (Gabriel)... This might help you get an idea of what the Quran says about the corruption (should of posted these earlier...): And among them are unlettered ones who do not know the Scripture except in wishful thinking, but they are only assuming. [2:78] So woe to those who write the "scripture" with their own hands, then say, "This is from Allah ," in order to exchange it for a small price. Woe to them for what their hands have written and woe to them for what they earn. [2:79] And [for] their saying, "Indeed, we have killed the Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, the messenger of Allah ." And they did not kill him, nor did they crucify him; but [another] was made to resemble him to them. And indeed, those who differ over it are in doubt about it. They have no knowledge of it except the following of assumption. And they did not kill him, for certain. [4:157] So for their breaking of the covenant We cursed them and made their hearts hard. They distort words from their [proper] usages and have forgotten a portion of that of which they were reminded. And you will still observe deceit among them, except a few of them. But pardon them and overlook [their misdeeds]. Indeed, Allah loves the doers of good. [5:13] Among the Jews are those who distort words from their [proper] usages and say, "We hear and disobey" and "Hear but be not heard" and "Ra'ina," twisting their tongues and defaming the religion. And if they had said [instead], "We hear and obey" and "Wait for us [to understand]," it would have been better for them and more suitable. But Allah has cursed them for their disbelief, so they believe not, except for a few. [4:46] And indeed, there is among them a party who alter the Scripture with their tongues so you may think it is from the Scripture, but it is not from the Scripture. And they say, "This is from Allah ," but it is not from Allah . And they speak untruth about Allah while they know. [3:78]
From all the examples I've seen of Eid al Adha, sheep and goats are killed by slitting their throats, so as to remove the blood quickly from the animal. This is perhaps even worse than the clubbing shown in the video. Slit throats result in a slow, painful death, and this is just another example of the uncivilized, barbaric savagery of Muslims, as opposed to normal people who wouldn't even think of doing such things, except when the animals are specifically designated to be made into food items. I believe even then, the animals are stunned so as to reduce their pain and shock. I think in Britain, Eid al Adha is illegal except in slaughterhouses. In Florida (USA), any killing of any animal (other than commercially) is illegal, and persons caught engaging in Eid al Adha here, can be arrested and imprisoned for 5 years + a $10,000 fine to boot. http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes...ing=&URL=0800-0899/0828/Sections/0828.12.html http://www.google.com/search?q=Eid+...niv&ei=wmO9ToqKD4ygtweD7vzDBg&ved=0CGoQsAQ4Cg
I think the killing of animals has nothing whatsoever to do with sacrifice. The Muslims who engage in this barbarism don't care about the animals, any more than the moron seen clubbing the sheep in the awful video, further back in the thread. If Muslims really wanted to make a sacrifice to God, they could do what American Indian women used to do when their husbands were killed in battle. They could cut half of one of their fingers off. They they would have lost something. That's what sacrifice means. You have to lose something. Muslims aren't losing anything by going out and buying a goat and then killing him. Come on you cowards. The Crow, the Sioux, the Shoshone, the Kiowa, and the Arapaho did it. How about you ? PS - I can't forget to mention the Muslim guy who went to kill a billy goat on Eid al Adha, and just as he was about to, the goat escaped his hold, ran back about 10 feet, and charged the guy with amazing speed, and gored him with two 17 inch sharp horns, killing him instantly. Way to go, goat ! LOL.
Couldn't understand a word he was saying. Better to present videos of people who don't sound like they're talking with marbles in their mouth.
Aaah, as a vegetarian I just love that kind of hypocrisy. Comedy Gold! Isn't it thanksgiving soon in the US of A? So how many turkeys are going to have as much 'fun' this year as the ones in the back-round of this video, my dear protectionist of animals? [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4j1N3G37_SQ"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4j1N3G37_SQ[/ame] Btw: Should you want to abstain from Turkey this dear I can send you the recipe for a lovely nut-roast, delish!
I'm a vegetarian too, and have been for over 30 years. Love those soy Boca crumbles and burger patties, and Morningstar bacon strips. Closest thing I get to consuming animal food is skim milk. Nice try though. Also, yes I am a protectionist of animals. Very much so. (not too well-played Junobet. LOL.) Are you a protectionist of animals too, or are you OK with a bunch of uncivilized, barbaric savages going around and killing them for no good reason, and lamely trying to pass it off as a "sacrifice" ?
