I am now convinced that Trump's actions on January 6th were criminal

He serves on ANY commission or committee or any at the pleasure of the President. The President can tell I have nothing for you to do, go fishing.

That is utter nonsense. The only decision making authority he MIGHT have is delegated by the President. He certainly has no authority to order federal troops to even blow their noses and Milley as CJCS has no command authority so he would be courts-martial and thrown in prison if he tried.

Anyone who followed or obeyed and illegal order by the VP would be subject to a crime. I'm not sure exactly what abuse of powers and usurpation of powers the VP could be charged but don't count it out and Congress would have a duty to impeach and remove for the unconstitutional attempted coup which could also be a crime.

It doesn't go to him, it used to go to the Secretary of Defense but that takes to long and it goes to the SecArmy. Again, the NG is not active military sitting around the base. They are people working their job and have to go through the process of getting there and deploying and that takes time. As does getting the sign offs and approvals starting with the local police. The OIG said there was NO delay and the DOD acting properly and efficiently as possible.

The request should have been made days before THAT is the ISSUE. Is this committee going to investigate that or whitewash it? I have already heard Chaney talking about "why did Trump no immediately order troops". Will they have some some rational constitutional experts there to tell her why? I doubt that is the propaganda they want everyone to believe.

 

But it had to do with this claim of yours.

Barr tried to stop trump from what?

 

Delegates of executive commissions are given executive powers under the discretion of the president. The vice president is one of the head members of the National Security Commission, and as such he is given authority to make executive decisions under the president's discretion. It's actually not a crime in of itself for a delegate to act outside of the president's discretion, it is the president himself who decides when a delegate has acted against his discretion, but the act itself is not a crime unless they ordered something illegal. A prime example of this would be Oliver North, who made an executive decision without the president even knowing about it, he was charged because what he had ordered was a violation of the Boland Amendment. However, of the three charges that North was hit with, none of them were for acting against the president's discretion, even though the president did not approve of North's decision. There are actually multiple examples in history of commission leaders acting against the president's discretion, but none of them have ever faced criminal charges for that part specifically.

As for the National Guard's response time on Jan 6th, it took them about an hour after the order was given to land at the Capitol, but the order itself was given 3 hours after the request was made, and the reason for this according to testimonies is the president was reluctant to give the order, so the vice president stepped in and gave the order. Under normal circumstances it does not take 3 hours to get the order through to deploy the National Guard, and it's actually astounding that you would believe that, given the purpose of the DC National Guard. The DC National Guard is literally the military defense of the US capital city, and in the case of an invasion or an attack, taking 3 hours just to give the okay to deploy the National Guard is unreasonable. A good example of this would actually be the 9/11 attacks, when the Pentagon was hit the order to deploy the National Guard did not take 3 hours, if it did then the order wouldn't have gone through until 12:30pm local time

The idea that it took them 4 hours overall due to the normal process of ordering the National Guard to be deployed is ridiculous. Such a slow response time would leave us completely vulnerable to attacks on our capital.

 

The VP HAS NO LEGAL OR CONSTITUTIONAL AUTHORITY TO DO ANYTHING..........................................

I don't know what is so hard to grasp here. And it has nothing to do with Oliver North who was a presidential appointee to a specific job with statutory authorities. The President can tell the VP go home if we need you we'll let you know and the VP would have nothing to do unless the Senate needed a tie broken the ONLY official job of a VP.

The VP has NO authority to call out the National Guard or ANY military force and neither does the CJCS.

The Office of Inspector General investigate the response and found there was NO delay, no one held up anything so stop trying to blame the National Guard because there were not there during the riot that is ALL on the Mayor of DC and Capital Hill leadership and that includes Pelosi in particular because she CAN order such things as the fences she had put up around the capital after the fact.

And if we came under ATTACK by a foreign army the PRESIDENT of COURSE in his capacity as Commander in Chief and has not just the constitutional authority but DUTY to protect us from attack and he would not only call out the NG he first would send in the ACTIVED DUTY military forces.

"The statements were backed up with testimony from Joint Chiefs Chairman Gen. Mark Milley, who said that Pence told Pentagon leaders to “get the Guard down here, put down this situation.”"

He can say what he thinks they should but that is not an order to do so and if any one acted on that they violated the law and the if the VP meant it as an official order he usurped the authority of the Commander in Chief and violate laws about deploying federal troops. It was not a matter of anyone at the White House ordering troops it was a matter that those troops had been offered and rejected by the Mayor and Capital Hill officials. They were not on some stand by. When the Capital Hill police, after requesting the addiational security in the days leading up and then as the crowds gathered and then as they breech, have to beg for approval first and then the whole sign off procedure and then the actual call up and deployment.

Here is the timeline

1:09 p.m.: Sund tells Irving and Stenger by phone that the National Guard is needed. Sund says both men told him they would “run it up the chain.”

Update, Jan. 28: According to Pittman’s prepared statements, the Capitol Police Board – which at the time included Irving and Stenger — contributed to a delayed response by the National Guard on the day of the riot. Pittman stated that on the afternoon of Jan. 6 Sund “lobbied the Board for authorization to bring in the National Guard, but he was not granted authorization for over an hour.”

1:26 p.m.: Capitol Police order the evacuation of the Capitol complex.

1:34 p.m.: In a phone call with Secretary of the Army McCarthy, Bowser requests an “unspecified number of additional forces,” according to the Pentagon timeline.

1:49 p.m.: Sund, in a phone call with the commanding general of the D.C. National Guard, Maj. Gen. William Walker, requests immediate assistance, and tells him to prepare to bring in the guard.

About 2 p.m.: Rioters breach the Capitol. In an interview with the Washington Post published on Jan. 10, Sund says, “If we would have had the National Guard we could have held them at bay longer, until more officers from our partner agencies could arrive.”

2:10 p.m.: Sund says Irving calls him back with formal approval to send in the guard. But as the Washington Post noted, “Sund finally had approval to call the National Guard. But that would prove to be just the beginning of a bureaucratic nightmare to get soldiers on the scene.”

2:22 p.m.: The secretary of the Army, Bowser, D.C. police leadership and others “discuss the current situation and to request additional DCNG support,” according to the Pentagon timeline.

2:24 p.m.: Trump tweets, “Mike Pence didn’t have the courage to do what should have been done to protect our Country and our Constitution, giving States a chance to certify a corrected set of facts, not the fraudulent or inaccurate ones which they were asked to previously certify. USA demands the truth!”

2:26 p.m.: Sund says he joins the conference call to plead for additional backup. “I am making urgent, urgent immediate request for National Guard assistance,” Sund recalls saying. According to Sund and others on the call, the Washington Post reports, Lt. Gen. Walter E. Piatt, director of the Army staff, says he could not recommend that to his boss, McCarthy, because, “I don’t like the visual of the National Guard standing a police line with the Capitol in the background.”

However, Piatt disputed that, saying in a statement: “I did not make the statement or any comments similar to what was attributed to me by Chief Sund in the Washington Post article — but would note that even in his telling he makes it clear that neither I, nor anyone else from [the Department of Defense], denied the deployment of requested personnel.”

2:30 p.m.: Miller, Milley and McCarthy meet to discuss the requests from Capitol Police and Bowser.

3 p.m.: Miller “determines all available forces of the DCNG are required to reinforce MPD [Metropolitan Police Department] and USCP positions to support efforts to reestablish security of the Capitol complex,” according to the Pentagon timeline. Simultaneously, the D.C. National Guard prepares to move 150 personnel to support Capitol Police, pending Miller’s approval.

3:04 p.m.: Miller “provides verbal approval of the full activation of DCNG (1100 total) in support of the MPD,” according to the Pentagon. In response, McCarthy immediately directs the D.C. National Guard “to initiate movement and full mobilization.” That means the D.C. guard members helping with traffic and crowd control are redeployed to support the Metropolitan Police Department at the Capitol, and the entire D.C. guard begins full mobilization.

3:19 p.m.: McCarthy explains in a phone call to Sen. Chuck Schumer and House Speaker Nancy Pelosi that Miller has already approved full DCNG mobilization. Miller later releases a statement saying, “Chairman Milley and I just spoke separately with the Vice President and with Speaker Pelosi, Leader McConnell, Senator Schumer and Representative Hoyer about the situation at the U.S. Capitol. We have fully activated the D.C. National Guard to assist federal and local law enforcement as they work to peacefully address the situation.” No mention is made of Trump’s involvement.

3:36 p.m.: White House Press Secretary Kayleigh McEnany tweets: “At President @realDonaldTrump’s direction, the National Guard is on the way along with other federal protective services.”

4:17 p.m.: Trump releases a video on social media in which he states, in part, “We had an election that was stolen from us. It was a landslide election and everyone knows it, especially the other side, but you have to go home now. We have to have peace. We have to have law and order. … We love you. You’re very special. You’ve seen what happens. You see the way others are treated that are so bad and so evil. I know how you feel. But go home and go home in peace.”

5:02 p.m.: 154 members of the D.C. National Guard leave the D.C. Armory.

5:40 p.m.: The first National Guard personnel arrive at the Capitol. By then, most of the violence had ended.

6 p.m.: A citywide curfew goes into effect.

6:01 p.m.: Trump tweets, “These are the things and events that happen when a sacred landslide election victory is so unceremoniously & viciously stripped away from great patriots who have been badly & unfairly treated for so long. Go home with love & in peace. Remember this day forever!”

6:14 p.m.: Capitol Police, Metropolitan Police and the D.C. National Guard “successfully establish perimeter on the west side of the U.S. Capitol,” the Pentagon timeline states.

8 p.m.: Capitol Police declare the Capitol building secure.

https://www.factcheck.org/2021/01/timeline-of-national-guard-deployment-to-capitol/

You can confirm it with the Capital Hill official timeline
https://justthenews.com/sites/default/files/2022-06/USCPJan.6Timeline.pdf

It's not a matter of the President ordering or not ordering or doing anything and especially not a powerless VP. The lack of security before and during falls in the laps of the Mayor and the Capital Hill leadership.

 

"In matters of domestic administration, the nature and number of the Vice President’s executive duties are, as a practical matter, within the discretion of the President, with the recent and important exception of statutory membership on the National Security Council. Since the Vice President is not prevented either by the Constitution or by any general statute from acting as the President’s delegate, the range of transferrable duties would seem to be co-extensive with the scope of the President’s power of delegation"

https://www.justice.gov/file/20766/download

Uhh.. excuse me, but the Inspector General investigated whether there were delays within the Defense Department's response. To take that investigation and conclude that there was no delays in getting approval from the president is disingenuous.

It's not just Mark Milley's testimony, there is also testimony from White House staff that they wanted to invoke the 25th since the president was reluctant to act. If you don't believe the testimonies are true, that's fine, there is nothing wrong with being skeptical. My whole point is if the testimonies are true, conduct like that from a sitting president is criminal, and the president should be held liable.

I'm curious where you see the contradiction in what I already described. There were clearly delays in getting approval to send the National Guard, and it is even specified that there is no mentioning of the president's involvement in getting that approval. Which is strange to say the very least considering the president is the commander in chief of the DC National Guard. Which if you ask me, the lack of the president's involvement in that report sounds pretty consistent with the testimonies from the Jan 6th investigation

It is also worth noting that the DOJ has recently made a statement that they are looking into these testimonies

 

ONLY at the discretion of the PRESIDENT. The President can give him NO additional duties or assignments. And he certainly has no authority to usurp the power an authority of the President.

The President doesn't approve, once the SecArmy signs off the request the troops are/were deployed.

And a President Pence would STILL not have had authority to just send troops in the same process would have been required.

The delays came from the Capital and Mayor not the DoD.

Of course Garland is making such statements.

 

Literally what I already said

"Delegates of executive commissions are given executive powers under the discretion of the president. The vice president is one of the head members of the National Security Commission, and as such he is given authority to make executive decisions under the president's discretion. It's actually not a crime in of itself for a delegate to act outside of the president's discretion, it is the president himself who decides when a delegate has acted against his discretion, but the act itself is not a crime unless they ordered something illegal. A prime example of this would be Oliver North, who made an executive decision without the president even knowing about it, he was charged because what he had ordered was a violation of the Boland Amendment. However, of the three charges that North was hit with, none of them were for acting against the president's discretion, even though the president did not approve of North's decision. There are actually multiple examples in history of commission leaders acting against the president's discretion, but none of them have ever faced criminal charges for that part specifically"

It's almost as if the DoD investigation was never investigating whether there were any delays in getting approval from the president... weird

Even the timeline you posted makes no mentioning of the president approving the deployment, it only mentions the vice president. If the testimonies are correct, the vice president is the one who gave the order

When did the president approve the deployment?

Because the DOJ is looking into it

 

Yes as I said to begin with, the VP only has the authority the President gives him except for his voting for ties in the Senate. The NSC is an advisory committee only it grants the VP by his merely sitting on it no authority to order troops anywhere or anyone to do anything. The OIG of the DoD investigated and the DoD release the report which I cited. The President doesn't approve it how many times do I have to mention it. The VP voice his OPINION that they should be deployed and OPINION only. The SecArmy is the final approval.

 

I think you mean the president did not approve it. The president (not the mayor) is the commander in chief of the DC National Guard, and as such carries more executive authority over the DC National Guard than anyone else. In fact, the DC National Guard is the only National Guard that is always under the president's command, but the president ultimately refused to approve any deployment after the riot broke out at the capitol.

 

Ah an illustration with 7 part plan invented by democrat. That settles it for sure.

 

No I meant exactly what I said, the President is not in that loop, nor is the VP for that matter, it goes to the SecArmy who approves it. And no Trump did not refuse to approve because such an approval does not go to him. He had in fact along with other officials at the DoD and HSA been urging the Capitial officials and Mayor to request that addtional security for without those request NO troops could be deployed. And those NG troops that were come under the Governors command not the President unless they are called to active military duty for a war.

 

The mayor is not the commander in chief of the DC National Guard, the president is. The local government is not a part of the chain of command for the National Guard

 

Again you either purposely try to conflate things or simply do not understand the law despite repeated attempts to explain it to you. The Mayor has to make the REQUEST for troops. It all starts THERE. No one can order troops in unless she requested them. If fact she wrote a letter saying she would not make that request and did not want additional troops. Same with the Capital grounds and building. It has to originate from there.

 

That is not even close to accurate, yes the mayor can make a request, however a request from the mayor is not required to deploy the National Guard. I don't know where you heard that, but the mayor is not a part of the chain of command for the DC National Guard.