if not God then who/what?

Without such comprehension of "nothing", then it is an absurdity to proclaim that God came from "nothing" when it is declared that we have no real comprehension of what "nothing" is in reality.

 

Thats why i said "in reality." Has nothingness ever existed?

 

science has produced evidence for both a Big Bang and a necessary observe of that event.
If by "evidence," you mean Facts, then you seem to be wrong here.

 

The proof came to us in 1940 when Hubble was able to show that everything in our universe is emerging from one central point in Space.
This is like what happens when a hand grenade explodes.

 

Actually Prof Sarcastic and several others said my argument better than me. But then again Aquinas was a lot more elegant than this thermodywhoji guy.

And so, we accept a supernatural being, so what? We accept Dark Matter, (well, sorta) which seems pretty supernatural to me. Hell, the whole definition of a "singularity" seems to be that it's a supernatural thing, far as I can tell.

The thing is that there are some real scientific glimmers that God may actually exist. But all you Christians immediately jump on them to say that somehow proves we have this big guy with a white beard who sits around all day putting fossils in the ground and letting really horrible (*)(*)(*)(*) go on to fool us into Not Having Faith, so he can send us all to Hell. (but he's infinitely merciful and loving about making our lives miserable so as to trick us into eternal suffering, yada, yada..)

Teilhard de Chardin came up with a system wherein Evolution actually can be seen as proving the existence of God, all that got him was that they wouldn't publish it until after he died.

 

Today, the Physicists believe that the earliest Wave Function of the Universe were collapsed when observed and transformed into the information they had been carrying which then formed the material Universe.

 

If you mean "immaterialism," (like all the seven different forms of Energy, for instance), then the answer is "yes."

Energy is a supernatural entity which we can see has the power to "do work," or "make things move," but we do NOT know what it is.
Physicist define energy as an "Ability to do work," which allows us to measure how much of that ability may have been used.
We have no way of defining it, and know that it needs no Space/time to contain it.
It is weightless, and comes always as both a wave and a particle.

If all Space/time disappeared as the mass of the Universe were to return to the center of the universe, "nothing" would exist but this energy absent Space, time, and weight.

 

Energy exists without Space/time,...
Before the material universe appeared, only Energy existed in absence of a cosmos.

Energy = mass X C^2

The mass became the universe.

 

That question awaits the seventh Angel:

7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

 

That's what I'm getting at though. Without 'material', you still can have energy. Even without energy as we know it, there is still 'zero point energy'. And who knows what beyond that? There is nowhere in reality that nothingness has actually been observed or even hypothesised.

Lol what?

 

And where is the proof of claim?

And where is the proof of claim?

A concept is not a proof of claim.

Speculation on your part and such speculation does not constitute proof of claim.

 

"You cannot get something out of nothing. So where did we come from? If there are those that claim God did not create the universe and therefore us, who/what did? "

it's much easier to accept energy popped into existence from nothing then a God did the same... Occam's razor

positive energy plus negative energy = nothing, so yes, you can get something from nothing (-1) + (+1) = 0

.

 

Did you read the title of this thread? It asks the question, if not God then who created the universe and the earth? I said in the absence of proof to the contrary, I wil go with God. Not because I am a Christian but because I am logical. In time I became more spiritual. I was not always a Christian. I was highly skeptical for the same reasons many are. But as time went on and I heard the various arguments pro and con I came to the conclusion that life and planets just didn't appear from nowhere or were simply always there. And I had a hard time imagining that he Bible was a huge fable constructed over hundreds of years with no apparent motive. Why would people do that? I applied every logical approach I could think of to deny that God exists. Not to support it. Hell, I'm in IT. You can't get any more logical than a guy in IT. I also took into account that out of all the known planets, Earth is the perfect environment for human beings. We would die anywhere else without help. And I have no human vision of God. He is The Creator in my book. I also laugh at these angelic depictions of Jesus. I imagine he was a rugged man who worked his ass off as a carpenter.

So I personally do not fit into the box you've described. And if you were to ask other Believers, they may tell you a story similar to mine. I put up the thread because my question is serious. We got here somehow and the evidence points to someone/something creating us.

 

""""if not God then who created the universe and the earth? I said in the absence of proof to the contrary, I wil go with God.""""


Why are people who believe that so entombed "in the box" that they can only think of two options.

A. We don't know

B. So there must be god.


Sheer idiocy...

 

Sheer idiocy is the domain of the person who cannot offer another option yet attacks God as an option. And idiots get angry over this.

 

In what discipline would you accept such "proof?"

The Physics people teach what I have told you here, but they are in the field of Science.




Read the science at the right bottom.

 

Hmmm,...
Space/time once did not exist, back 13.5 billion years ago.

Whatever existed then was outside of, or in spite, of spacelessness.

 

Sheer idiocy is the person who builds their personal assumption that there was a creator into their OP.

 

So then were did God come from?

You don't want to know the truth of anything you simply want what you believe to be true.

 

I'm not angry so that leaves......???



The god option is clearly a figment of the imagination...which is fine but when that's the ONLY "option" believers claim is true THAT IS idiocy.

 

What you've posted there is the very opposite of logic. In fact, it's specifically categorized as a logical fallacy: appeal to ignorance. It hasn't been disproved, so you believe it to be true. Fine if you want to be in denial about your religious beliefs informing your beliefs about the origin of the cosmos, but please don't try to claim it is at all logical.

 

Indeed. Correlation does not imply causation.

 

Define how what I offered is a logical fallacy.
The ignorance is everyone's since no one knows for sure how we were created. But I offered an argument. What do you have? Give me your logic. I've denied nothing.

 

That's a great point as I doubt that humanity is anywhere near knowing all that there is to be known. 500 years ago if a man had a seizure people thought he was suffering from a demonic possession... today we understand the brain much better and know of illnesses such as Epilepsy.

I as a theist lean towards a God setting everything in motion... but I will not state it as a irrefutable proof as its only my opinion and I could be wrong.

There are a great many mysteries yet to be solved and I too am OK with not knowing.

 

Did you not say that you believe God created the universe because there is no proof to the contrary? That's a logical fallacy, called an appeal to ignorance or argument from ignorance. It's like if I said I believe babies hijacked that Malaysian flight because there isn't any proof to the contrary.