Ingraham and Fox take on Bill Gates

No. We are a global society.

 

I agree with this - absolutely.

One positive I see is that the Wuhan lab has identified a source of SARS viruses that have crossed to humans (just not ending up as pandemics). Unfortunately, there are thousands of them. They are figuring out what it takes to cross and what to look for to identify likely new SARS strains that It turns out that bats have developed significant immunity to them, so they can be long term incubators.

Maybe they can find a way to slow this at its source - or at least identify new such viruses faster.

In 2018 HHS has a bid from a company for making a machine that could product 1.5 million n95 masks per day. It doesn't seem like it would cost that much to have a few of those around so in case of a world pandemic we could supplement private production - rather than trying to maintain a signifiant stockpile of aging masks.

I'd bet we should have better international travel agreements with other countries. Having minimum travel regs like masks and temperatures required - ideas that could be snapped into place and cover everyone without horrible impact - and for all kinds of travel (unlike what we have today even for China).

I'm really curious what Gates would say about this kind of thing.

 

Absolutely.

But, that doesn't mean that we don't have responsibility for what happens here.

We got infected by travel from New York, which was infected by travel from Europe. Even in the three west coast states, a significant if not majority of cases came from travel from New York, not travel from China. WA COVID is 40% New York. Throughout the rest of the nation, the New York strains massively dominate - such that no other strains are particularly detectable.

We got hyper focused on blaming China. Bad f'ing news!

 

Ofcourse we have a responsibility here and yes, Trump took way too long. Still does not let China off the hook.

 

Well, there are lots of people investigating, so I'm sure we'll find out a real chronology.

But, it seems pretty clear that we were slower than China was.

I really have no idea what comes out of the "blame China" thing - because OUR prolem came from the USA and what we did about a threat that nobody had control over.

Why would we charge China with something that we were even worse at?

 

China arrested people who spoke out and possibly killed them.

Still:

https://www.businessinsider.com/tru...-russia-putin-for-coronavirus-response-2020-5

 

Not worse. Equally culpable.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politic...ganization-blame-pandemic-coronavirus/609820/


https://www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-china-hid-pandemic-news-six-days-2020-4

https://www.wsj.com/articles/china-still-misleads-the-world-on-the-coronavirus-11586818132

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...-up-as-wuhan-coronavirus-deaths-revised-up-50


"Authorities in the Chinese city where the global coronavirus pandemic began late last year have revised its death toll upwards by 50%, as the government in Beijing again denied there had been any cover-up in its handling of the crisis.

A local government taskforce in Wuhan charged with virus prevention added 1,290 fatalities to the city’s toll, taking the confirmed count to 3,869 from a previously reported 2,579. Wuhan, a city of 11 million people, suffered more fatalities than any other city in China as residents struggled get help from its overwhelmed medical system."

 

Pretty amazing post!

I'd say Trump's response has been all business/politics both here and abroad. He's not even slightlly interested in science (for no more than something that is critical of his brand of crazy), and he really isn't interested in whether peole get sick and/or die either.

He is a driving force behind the "blame it on China" thing. He claims he's been perfect and it's obvious we're in trouble - so ... scapegoat time!

 

Both Trump and China get an F-

 

I don't subscribe to WSJ. So, I don't know what that site says.

I'm glad the chronology is being investigated. But, 6 days of China delay doesn't have much to do with the scale of what WE allowed to happen in America.

Their new years travel was in progress - trying to shut that down would have been pretty much politically impossible and much had already taken place. My bet is that it could end up being shown that they delayed because of that.

We made the SAME decision with Mardi Gras and Spring Break even after we KNEW FOR SURE what the results would be. And, we allow travel all over the world today - our restrictions are not total even for the designated countries. So, people could attend Mardi Gras and then fly back to Brazil or wherever.

And, most of those traveling here from China after the travel restrictions were not handled as potentially infected.

Trump is in trouble on this and it's not surprising he's in serious search of scapegoats.

 

We're doing the same thing!

Our reporting is known to be crap and it's being investigated in several different ways. There aren't federal level reporting standards, states aren't reporting everything they know, states don't have enough tests, so their data on cases is seriously limited. Tests are wasted on those who die outside hospitals.

There are fewer deaths today due to automobiles, workplace accidents, etc., yet there are way more deaths today than there were in previous years at this time. The only known likely source is COVID.

FL has gone so far as to state that they will not report anymore!!!

What would you say if China did what WE are doing?

 

It's not 6 days delay from when China knew the virus was a major problem; it's 6 days when they knew it was full blown endemic and had pandemic potential. If you read the entire articles you can see you'll see the months China lied. Also below is an excerpt from Vox:
"
Nearly six weeks after China announced the coronavirus outbreak, there’s still a surprising amount we don’t know about this newly discovered disease. But one thing is becoming clear: China’s silence in the earliest days of the crisis may have made it worse."
"
the world about the severity of a deadly disease spreading within the country’s borders — even trying to muzzle whistleblowers, like the late Dr. Li Wenliang. Now hailed as a national hero, Li was forced on January 3 by police to sign a letter saying he spread “untrue speech” for warning colleagues about the virus that eventually took his life.

With more than 40,500 people infected and 910 deaths, China’s missteps early on seem increasingly fateful. The fact that the international community has not acknowledged those missteps is also consequential."

Read the rest free below:

https://www.vox.com/2020/2/10/21124...k-china-li-wenliang-world-health-organization

 

I'm voting Biden and I don't want Trump reelected but ignoring China's initial and continued culpability is very dangerous.

 

I'm not saying the US did great. I'm not a Trump supporter but you can't let China off the hook either. Please read before you reply.

 

OK.

In the final analysis I do believe China will be shown to have been slower than they should have been. And, that's a pretty big hit given the seriousness - even when considering what was still being figured out at the time.

With Trump, we've been even slower at closing our borders (thus New York), with domestic travel (which spread this virus all over the USA), and our federal government has continued to fail on all other aspects that fell to that level of government to resolve. We've even taken to firing and otherwise blocking medical scientists from telling us what progress is being made and what needs to be done to fight this pandemic.

Business, science and politicians contributed to making the Trump plan, yet Trump is totally ignoring that - strongly promoting opening our economy without the measure identified in his plan.

 

Amen.

"Continued culpability"? Did I miss something?

 

Yes you missed alot.

 

Continuing means something is happening now.

What is China doing now that is hurting us?

 

Read my links...it explains. Still covering up. Still, suppressing information and it appears they may have killed whistleblowers.

Between I have a fiance in Hong Kong and friends in mainland China...

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...e-legally-liable-pandemic-damage-it-has-done/

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/five-lies-china-is-telling-about-coronavirus

 

No country does much to cooperate with an investigation of wrongdoing by some other country. I'm not even SLIGHTLY surprised that China isn't interested in that. What would you say about Mexico investigating the USA on the grounds that they got this from us? I'm pretty darn sure I'd say "pound sand".


The thing is, regardless of what the China investigation turns up it isn't going to affect the COVID situation in the US or most other parts of the world.

At this point, we know just as much if not more about this virus as any other country in the world.

I can certainly imagine you could have serious objections to China in your personal life, and I certainly hope those close to you are safe.

 

Actually a full investigation would save lives in the future. That's the real point.

 

[Quote =" No country does much to cooperate with an investigation of wrongdoing by some other country. I'm not even SLIGHTLY surprised that China isn't interested in that. What would you say about Mexico investigating the USA on the grounds that they got this from us? I'm pretty darn sure I'd say "pound sand".


The thing is, regardless of what the China investigation turns up it isn't going to affect the COVID situation in the US or most other parts of the world.

At this point, we know just as much if not more about this virus as any other country in the world."

I can certainly imagine you could have serious objections to China in your personal life, and I certainly hope those close to you are safe.[/Quote]


Also you are now contradicting yourself. You are no longer internally consistent. It's like when software engineering plans become self-defeating.

I'm done with this conversation; I'm sure we will have others, but this has nothing left to say.

 

The "legally liable" thing is a joke. That's just not going to happen, and it's ridiculous to put forward that kind of total nonsense. We should be focused on stuff we can do.

As for the 5 lies, the first is total BS as current investigation shows, and the 5th talks about silencing dissent - which is a repeatedly executed Trump method.

I'm sure we'll find out more about the other 3, but the serious issue has to do with what WE did. That's the one that is ongoing NOW - not any of those 5 lies. And, OUR problem is the definition of what we need to fix to be prepared for the next pandemic.