Islam is hopeless part II

No point in making treaties with infidels, Muslims can break treaties anytime.

Show no mercy, the only treaty is for Christians and Jews to convert.

Mohammed is getting desperate because at this point several Muslim generals are starting to question Mohammed's sanity, especially his instructions to wage violent aggressive wars against the Christian and Jewish tribes who have not done them any wrong and for misleading them to believe that the Byzantine have gather an army at Tabuk, no such army and no threat was present.

Mohammed is now mad and has invoke Allah instructing Muslims to kill fellow Muslims who refuse to follow his orders.

Another battle cry verse encouraging Muslims to be brutal against enemies of Islam.

http://www.meforum.org/1754/peace-or-jihad-abrogation-in-islam

 

reds above.
& watch less tv, calm your bias down...

 

Stay away from radical Islam and follow the true Islam then you will be save.

Why do you want me to watch less TV don't you want me to learn about Islam and Muslims? Are you afraid of the truth.

I watch Zakir Naik, Shabir Ally, Anjem Choudary, Dr. Zuhdi Jasser, Fr. Boutros etc. etc. Should I stay awau from them too? And so far only Muslim apologetics Dr. Zuhdi Jasser speaks truthfully and he and his followers are the real Muslims. You should try listen to Dr. Jesser you'll love him unless you are one of those radicals.

Muslims have failed to do a full textual research on their Quran for centuries because they are not allow to do that they are not even allow to question Mohammed less they be punish severely that may include death. So now that the Quran is being analyse because we want to find out why Muslims hate us, why they are so bias, why they kept on bombing churches and mosque, why they took down the Twin Towers and why they kept claiming Islam is a religion of peace and the true religion of Allah with all their killings and wars?? Slowly we are understanding, the problem are not Muslims it is Islam.

 

what is true islam?

i want people to read and have their own opinion.
not what media dictates. we've had enough of that.

we've had enough of security pulling someone over at airport
just because his name is "muhammed".

we've had enough of people attacking islam because
they don't know anything about it and they are affraid.

we've had enough of media picking the worst cases of muslims
and telling "here! this is true islam!".

they are the worst cases of humanity, not just as muslims.
and the majority of the muslims condemn their behaviour...

pick up the qur'an and read
if you will state your opinion about it.

that's all we ask.

only Allah knows who a real muslim is.
i hope they are valuable, as you said.

i don't know who is who and what agenda
they have anymore... so i can't vouch for anyone.

on the other hand;
i don't know many of the names you mentioned.
i watched some debates of shabir ally...
but personally i don't like debates,
most of them are pointless.

instead we need more informative dialogues and understanding.

 

Islam is like the Old Testament.

No love, no, compassion, and riddled with brutality.

 

the qur'an will give you what you are looking for.

Ar-Rahman
the exceedingly compassionate,
the exceedingly beneficent,
the exceedingly gracious
beginning of every chapter except one*, and in numerous
other places. name frequently used in surah 55, Ar-Rahman.

Ar-Rahim
the exceedingly merciful
beginning of every chapter except one*, and in numerous other places

>> click​

* "except one"?
it is the surah tauba. if you read the surah itself, you will see it deals
with God’s wrath on the polytheists and the breaker of covenant who
were attempting to extinguish the light of islam. jibreel descended with
these ayat along with the wrath of God on these disbelievers and
hypocrites, so there is no "bismillah", because this sentence is a sign of
mercy and peace and God did not intend to send such a message of
mercy and peace to the enemies of islam, but rather a dire warning.

 

Those verses sound really nice very Christian like, that is what real Muslims are supposed to be unfortunately because of the abrogation rule that exist in Ismalic hierarchy , they use that rule to settle any conflict of verses were abrogated by Sura 9, this Sura 9 is what the radicals including most Muslim apologetics have been following because Sura 9 is consider the last will and testament of Mohammed. Sura 9 contains many aggressive and violent verses that targets none Muslims and apostates totally the opposite of earlier verses that teaches freedom of religion, compassion, equality and freedom.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3P35E31THd8"]Zuhdi Jasser - Oslo Freedom Forum 2010 - YouTube[/ame]

He is not welcome to preach and or speak in Muslim lands.

 

those are not verses.
read the qur'an.

i say read the qur'an but
you haven't even read the post.

internet has been the new refuge of the ignorant.
just because the information is down there and accesible,
doesn't mean that the specific info you gathered is the truth.

it makes you feel good yes... like you know some stuff.
but actually you don't.

i still have a hard time to understand people stating their
opinion about a book that they haven't read.

how do you do that?
i mean how???
do you claim to be a doctor and go in the operations without
having a diploma and practice?

- "a tale of two cities", did you like it?
- no.
- why?
- because i seen it on tv, it wasn't good, they've said.
- have you read it yourself?
- no.
- how do you know then?
- they showed a guy who likes charles dickes, the writer
you know, and i didin't like the guy who liked him... and i've
also read bits and pieces of it; i didn't get it all. but there
was this other guy who explained them all for me.
- are you gonna read the book?
- no, i will criticize it.
- how?
- i will pick videos from youtube and post it on forums!​

indeed. ignorance is bliss.
it will last until you see the truth.
so you might as well enjoy it while it lasts.

 

Islam is not a religion. It is a political cult. It is not peaceful and does not believe in individual rights, therefore it cannot co-exist with democratic society.

 

sure.

1. show me an unbiased ressource that proves that.
2. elaborate on one single surah that you have read from the qur'an
by quoting the qur'an.​

yes, this means google time for you.

 

This is clearly from the Quran don't tell me it isn't:
Quran 96:1 4
The angel came to him and asked him to read. The Prophet replied, "I do not know how to read.
The Prophet added, "The angel caught me (forcefully) and pressed me so hard that I could not bear it any more. He then released me and again asked me to read and I replied, 'I do not know how to read.' Thereupon he caught me again and pressed me a second time till I could not bear it any more. He then released me and again asked me to read but again I replied, 'I do not know how to read (or what shall I read)?' Thereupon he caught me for the third time and pressed me, and then released me and said, 'Read in the name of your Lord, who has created (all that exists) has created man from a clot. Read! And your Lord is the Most Generous."
(96.1, 96.2, 96.3)
Then Allah's Apostle returned with the Inspiration and with his heart beating severely. Then he went to Khadija bint Khuwailid and said, "Cover me! Cover me!" They covered him till his fear was over and after that he told her everything that had happened and said, "I fear that something may happen to me."

Now compare that experience with this:

Quran 3:45 - 48 “When the angels said: ‘O Mary! Indeed God gives you glad tidings of a word (His saying, ‘Be&#8217 from Him, whose name is the Messiah, Jesus the son of Mary, held in honor in this world and in the Hereafter, and of those nearest to God.

3:46 "He shall speak to the people in childhood and in maturity. And he shall be (of the company) of the righteous."

3:47 She said: "O my Lord! How shall I have a son when no man hath touched me?" He said: "Even so: Allah createth what He willeth: When He hath decreed a plan, He but saith to it, 'Be,' and it is!

Gabriel of Mary was very confident, reassuring and none threatening, he utter the sacred words and Mary became pregnant.

While the Gabriel that appear to Mohammed not only did he not know Mohammed was illiterate he failed even after he utter the sacred words READ! (maybe READ is not the sacred word? that is why it didn't work?)

I don't know how you can spin the clear difference to make it appear there is no difference of different characteristics of the two Gabriel.
What is it that the spirit wants Mohammed to read was there something present maybe the first Quran book?
If there was a written document what happen to it?

 

this isn't from the qur'an.
the qur'an has a surah called "alaq".
Allah (God) started the revelation with
ayahs of that surah.

(ayahs = verses / surahs = chapters)

but no... this here, what you pasted,
is not from the qur'an. it's an explanation
of the event, not the qur'an itself.
sorry.

to see the original (translation) refer to
http://quran.com/96

this is a better translation:

And [remember] when the angels said,
"O Mary, indeed Allah has chosen you and purified
you and chosen you above the women of the worlds.

O Mary, be devoutly obedient to your Lord and
prostrate and bow with those who bow [in prayer]."

That is from the news of the unseen which We
reveal to you, [O Muhammad]. And you were not
with them when they cast their pens as to which
of them should be responsible for Mary. Nor were
you with them when they disputed.

[And remember] when the angels said,
"O Mary, indeed Allah gives you good tidings of a
word from Him, whose name will be the Messiah,
Jesus, the son of Mary - distinguished in this world
and the Hereafter and among those brought near
[to Allah].

He will speak to the people in the cradle and in maturity
and will be of the righteous."

She said, "My Lord, how will I have a child when no man
has touched me?" [The angel] said, "Such is Allah ;
He creates what He wills. When He decrees a matter,
He only says to it, 'Be,' and it is.

And He will teach him writing and wisdom and the Taurat
(Torah) and the Injeel (Gospel)

And [make him] a messenger to the Children of Israel,
[who will say], 'Indeed I have come to you with a sign
from your Lord in that I design for you from clay [that
which is] like the form of a bird, then I breathe into it
and it becomes a bird by permission of Allah . And I cure
the blind and the leper, and I give life to the dead - by
permission of Allah. And I inform you of what you eat and
what you store in your houses. Indeed in that is a sign
for you, if you are believers.​

you should read the qur'an on your own.
not base your opinion what people may interpret ok?
i think it's healthier.

here is an interpretation for instance:

In this surah, God presents a concise but compelling argument:
Man is a creature of wonder, beginning with its development
from a biomass (or Alaq), who has been granted the gift of
sentience by God. Then as a being Man divides into two distinct
groups: those who recognize their cosmic condition, seek divine
guidance (by 'reading' God's word), and bow to God's will (symbolized
by 'prostration'); and those who even in the face of these apparent
wonders of Man's condition, consider the Human to be an 'independent'
entity, answerable to no transcendent authority, and even more
contentiously, take it upon themselves to prevent the first class of
man from following God's Word and submitting to Him.

God then states that the first type of Man, the believer, is the righteous
one, and that the second class is both in error and is in fact a "lying
and sinful" creature. The sura concludes with God's warning to the
denier that the "guards of Hell" await, and that such men should cease
from denying the believer the right to worship unmolested by them. The
sura's last verse are words of encouragement to the believer to "not yield"
to the threats of unbelievers but to continue in persistence in obeying
God, and a promise of nearness to God for such a believer.​

don't take this quoted interpretation as the final idea,
look for more on your own.

here is how you process a religious text:

first read the original (in arabic for qur'an).
then get help from translations -not one many-
and then the interpretation by many scholars -again not just one-.
then check the concordance with the entirety of the whole
document (the qur'an in this case).
then match it with the soul and tendencies of the religion.
and finally have a "first impression".

ideas will evolve eventually, with patience.

you really should read the qur'an itself mate.
you are far off with this. as in... nowhere near.
if you don't listen to me listen to mark here:

get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please.
~mark twain​

 

You are correct that is from the Hadith-Bukari which has expanded the revelation and explanation of that first encounter.

Are we not to accept the Hadith expanded revelation or explanation? Which is which then? Plus no where did the spirit identify himself as Gabriel again, very uncharacteristic of the true Gabriel if we are to compare Bible Gabriel with all his appearances to different subjects he always identify himself.

Thanks for that, I have a Quran and I did read that part Surat Al-`Alaq 96:1-19 and it would seem to be incomplete it did not really say anything about how Mohammed got his revelation, those verses 96::1 -19 is more of a partial announcement demanding Mohammed to recite without fully identifying himself or the mission. And according to other Islamic books which is more expanded show what really happen.

[/QUOTE]

I do have a Quran and I always read it and compare it to the Bible and then to historical facts and other related books in this case the Hadith. It would seem then that there is a conflict between the Quran and Hadith?

Gabriel-Mary incident is more in conformity of the characteric of Gabriel that is identical to the Bible Gabriel. But I disagree on the message of Gabriel-Islam to Mary it was change from son of God to son of Mary. Also the

Quran 96:2 Created man from a clinging substance.

Quran 96:2 Created man, out of a (mere) clot of congealed blood:Khalaqa al-insana min AAalaqin

It said man was created from clinging substance other Quranic words use is clot like blood clot so there is some discrepancy here. Are we not created from clay?

I believe it does not matter if the Quran is written in Arabic or English it should still translate according to what it is supposed to be. If Islamic books are in conflict to each other how can we then accept the Quran as complete and infallible?, we can't the more I read the more I conclude that Islam is just another religion and I hope that Muslims will stop undermining the Bible because the more they do that the more they are exposing them selves and Islam as just another religion not superior to Christianity.

 

you should look to the hadith through qur'an.
not the other way around.

qur'an is the source of guidance.
not one single letter is changed since its revelation.
it's guaranteed that this time the task of protecting
the scripture (the message to mankind) is not on mankind
again... it's Allah's promise.

check this, this and this if you are interested about these matters.
overall, jamal badawi addresses to the issues...

hadith is the interpretation and elaboration on certain aspects
of the qur'an... addresses daily life living, social issues, etc...

"the expanded revelation" wouldn't be the right terminology
for hadith. because then all words in it must be taken as the
word of Allah (God).

hadith = mostly true. but still... recorded by man.
qur'an = Allah's (God's) words.

there are strong hadiths.
and there are weak hadiths.
you look at the chain for that.
who told the hadith, to who, to who...?
who recorded it?
is there anything in it that doesn't match the qur'an?

because prophet (saw) himself never did anything
against the qur'an. he was living according Allah's (God's)
revelation as an example for humanity.

we also know that there are fabricated hadiths.
i'm not talking about this specific case here.

but how do you distinguish them?
easy: through qur'an.

check how the "ahle sunnat wal jama'at" is gathered
under 4 schools of practice... intertwined yet different.
hanafi / shafi`i / maliki / hanbali.

• you understand what "the message" is,
• you practice and live it,
• you make research.

read the hadith through those lenses.
otherwise you will just be just another orientalist;
and you won't come anywhere near to understand islam.

----------

in the qur'an, the creation of man is referred within different phases.

1) first creation (through clay)
2) embryology (sperm, womb, pregnancy, birth)

to make mankind understand the stages of creation...
only Allah (God) knows what is the true nature of all things.

now...
you must accumulate all those verses and read them together.
to see the concordance and relation within.

this for instance:

23:12-14
And certainly did We create man from an extract of clay.

Then We placed him as a sperm-drop in a firm lodging.

Then We made the sperm-drop into a clinging clot, and We made the
clot into a lump [of flesh], and We made [from] the lump, bones, and
We covered the bones with flesh; then We developed him into another
creation. So blessed is Allah , the best of creators*.​

1400 years ago...
some knowledge about zygote, morula and blastula;
wouldn't you say?

also Allah (God) explains adam's (pbuh) creation and states that
he has been created from the clay/soil...

35:11
And Allah created you from soil, then from a sperm-drop; then
He made you mates. And no female conceives nor does she give
birth except with His knowledge. And no aged person is granted
[additional] life nor is his lifespan lessened but that it is in a register.
Indeed, that for Allah is easy​

for more info about the creation from clay/soil;
refer to: 3:59 - 18:37 - 22:5; 35:11 - 40:67 - 30:20 in the qur'an.

some info about the phases:

32:7-8
Who perfected everything which He created and began
the creation of man from clay.

Then He made his offspring from semen of worthless water.​

then some info here about the ingredients of the clay:

15:26
And We did certainly create man out of clay from an altered black mud.​

here in the surat nuh (chapter of noah) we see the "stages"...

71:14-17
While He has created you in stages?

then Allah goes on and explains the system

Do you not consider how Allah has created seven
heavens (skies) in layers (one above another),

And made the moon therein a [reflected] light and
made the sun a burning lamp?

And Allah has caused you to grow from the earth a
[progressive] growth.
​

the key word here is "progressive".

"be and it is" and "progressive".
how does that match?

now think about that.
if you get that, then you will start to understand.

----------

arabic and english is really different.
in english translation you merely have some taste
of the meaning. but the arabic is...

let me put it this way;
reading in english is like looking at the sea.
it's ok you understand it's a sea... water so on...
it's still nice.

but the original text is like swimming in the sea,
seeing millions of fish and other creatures,
feeling the sea, surfing on the sea, writing poems
to the sea...

can simply not compare.

regards.


* this doesn't mean "there are many creators and Allah is the best of them"
the term "ahsenü'l-hâlıkîn" is roughly translated and needs to be explained.
it's a way of description and praise.

 

EU's foreign policy chief demands Iran halt executions of woman, pastor

 

do you blame all christians for hiroshima?

how many innocent people were there at that bombing?
how many children?
how many women?
what about the post-effects of the bomb?
all those disabled people...
​

where is the dignity in that?
elaborate.

or not.
keep on sleeping.

 

Why don't you condemn what the Muslim-Iranian authorities are doing instead of talking about Hiroshima. Is it because you agree with their Islamic policy to kill, execute or should I say murder apostates and proselytizers?

When we have majority of Muslims supporting the violent verses of Quran and Hadith, yes it is right to generalise all Muslims.

This is your chance to show us what kind of Muslim you real are?

 

read my other posts to understand what i condemn or not...

if they attack us, we shouldn't defend ourselves and say "sure slay us all"...
is that so? sorry. this won't happen. that's unrealistic to ask anyone to do that.

why don't you stop picking and bringing up things against muslims?
iran's shi'ite regime is islam to you?
educate yourself.

what about america's most ridiculous acts of war?

a very recent example:
"here we came here to save the world"
"ooops we couldn't find any mass destruction weapons
but no problem, we have the petroleum, bye now!"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Iraq_War

no one is saying saddam was a great guy.
this is not about that. this is about innocents dying for more profit.
stop presenting muslims as the goat to blame for your own interests...

wake up.

focus on your own history. your domestic violence, your alcoholisim,
your drug abuse, your child rape, your gang killings... focus on this.

then have a straight face to come and teach people what they should
condemn or not...

focus on your own scripture and sort out things first...
how you will deal with things when what you condemn is actually
in your own scriptures:

luke 19:27
but as for these enemies of mine,
who did not want me to reign over them,
bring them here and slaughter them before me.​

who's the one speaking here?
who is encouraging what?
i'm sure you have an explanation.

you are talking like i'm on trial on something...
how vulgar and tyranizing can a human get?

"show us what you are before civilized man"

is that what your kind told to native americans?
did they do a good job?

wake up.
you are being played and manipulated.

we will stand by whatever Allah (God) orders us to do.
and we will stand strong insaAllah.

if someone attacks us, we will defend ourselves.

you have a problem with that.
then you have a problem with us living in this world.

 

Your post have been justifying that everything is self defence, what is consider not self defense? Are we Christians allowed to defend ourselves against Muslim aggression or not?

So far that is what we are seeing in Iran Muslims and none Muslims are being kill for not being Muslim enough. And who are speaking up in their defense, not Muslims....guess again...Christians and secular governments are the ones that are speaking up.

Very typical Muslim, always refuse to accept and always to blame Christians for their own problems.
You mean, Iran i snot shiit Muslim government? Or you saying because they are shiite they are not Muslim?

I am getting educated by Muslims.

The difference is that we in general understood that, that is why the Iraq invasion did not get majority support from Western countries including from Canada and we spoke against it. Muslim countries on the other hand not only are they timid in speaking up against Muslim atrocities and wars they don't do anything about it.

because Saddam invaded Kuwait and threaten Saudi Arabia, and who did those Muslim countries call to liberate them from Saddam, the USA! that is why the Iraqi-Kurds are the most secure and productive in all of Iraq, Muslims don't want to talk about that do they including USA support of Bosnian-Muslims, where were you not even a thank you?

And who is attacking you( Muslims)? Not us but Muslims and have you been fighting back, no instead you blame us for stepping in to fight your wars. And yes, I have a problem with us keep on fighting Muslim wars who are always ungrateful for our help and always turn on us for helping them.

get real!

 

Response: Such is clearly not the case, proven by the very text of he Qur'an and Sunnah, which advocates peace and justice. Your inability to quote from the Qur'an or Sunnah otherwse confirms this.

 

Response: There's the statement. Where's the proof? The teachngs of islam promote peace and justice and decency in morality for humankind. That is islam, proven by the Qur'an and Sunnah. Whle your definition is not supported by anything from the Qur'an or Sunnah, thus it is not of islam.

 

you can act however you want.
you are the one accusing islam.
i'm only informing you.

if you are one of the people who are defending us.
then we are in big trouble.

states are responsible for their own actions.
even if they hide their motives behind religions.

you don't know how a typical muslim acts.
you have never experienced one, lived with one.
you have witnessed some examples, that's not enough
to judge billions of people.

you are guessing on our limited conversation here
where you keep attacking ignorantly to our beliefs.

you might know stereotypes, but not typical muslims.

our duty to spread the message
and educate the ones who don't know.

i studied international relations.
i don't know many things in this life...
but don't even try to explain to me how western sovereign
countries act on warfare. how they divide acts and conclusions...
how they seem like renouncing policies but in fact approving wholeheartedly.

muslim countries are free of guilt?
not at all.
less hypocrite?
not at all.

it's not about religions.
it's about interests and big involvements.
most of those things you watch on tv as spontaneous are calculated.

you really need to read more history to break those delusions.
i can't do that in one post.

the extremists who are being financed by usa?
have you heard of the cia and external "affairs"?

do you think that 'arab spring' was just a coincidence?

i live in the middle east.
you come down here you will know what is real.
i have lived in the west for many years...
thus i have already seen the western side, it's rather shallow.

 

If only majority of Muslims maybe 50+1 can be like her:

Raza: Why I will always be a merry Muslim

http://www.goablog.org/posts/raza-why-i-will-always-be-a-merry-muslim/

 

yes and many christians don't even know
that jesus (pbuh) is in the qur'an...

muslims don't celebrate christmas,
just like you don't celebrate our religious holidays.

christmas is a pagan/sun worship tradition inserted
in the religion of Allah.

if you want to celebrate,
muslims won't have any objection.
but we cannot be a part of it.

if you want to understand jesus (pbuh),
read the qur'an.

the dialogue is always open with kindness and understanding.

merry christmas.

 

On the contrary, Christian are aware of that, that is why we are asking questions as to why Muslims seem's to be giving Mohammed more preference over Jesus Christ and why have they change the full narration and story of Jesus Christ?

So, Ramadan is not an Islamic holiday?

That is what Muslims, think at the same time we can also claim that Islam is associated with the moon goddess.

We have no problems with Muslims celebrating their Ramadan or if they want to proselytize their religion to us, we will listen and decide if we want to convert or not, and I wish that Muslims will allow us the same rights that we have accommodated them.

.

Unfortunately, the Quran got all of Jesus Christ wrong that is why we can not accept the Quran as the word of Allah.

The same here too, that is why we always answer critics and questions with respect and with none hostility.