Israelis vilified for lack of "sympathy" for Hamas savages

"Palestine" was never an independent state. It was part of the Ottoman Empire. The Ottoman Empire imploded. Part of it was settled by Jews and became the modern State of Israel.

 

Actually it was. Ancient Km.t called it Peleset. The people who lived there were called Philistines in the torah. Gaza was a province within Peleset.

 

Did they have a capital? A government? Were they a state or just a tribe?

 

Saddam Hussein ran Iraq so that Christians were tolerated and even thrived. So too in Turkey and I think Tunisia and many other muslim countries. Turkey's Christians Face Increasingly Dangerous Persecution | Opinion - Newsweek

 

They were a state, according African sources. Idk who their leader was.

 

yep, after 2006, they never had to vote again.... sounds familiar

 

Thank you for posting all that. None of that refutes the fact that much of the land was acquired during the Muslim conquests and that the comparison to Palestinians and Native Americans is far from reasonable.

Can you point out a thriving population of Jews, Christians, atheists, or people critical of religion/government in the region surrounding Israel?

 

There were no official nation-states with well defined & defended borders in the early period. (There's debate as to whether the first nation-state emerged in the 17th or 18th Centuries.) So territories were constantly turned over from one conqueror to another. That was just a fact of life.

However, we can observe major differences in the way conquered peoples are/were treated by different conquerors.

The Islamic wave acquired territories all the way from Portugal to Afghanistan, yet Christians & Jews were well tolerated and viewed as "dhimmi" (protected person) - referring to the state's obligation under sharia to protect the individual's life, property, as well as freedom of religion, in exchange for loyalty to the state and payment of the jizya tax (in contrast to the zakat, or obligatory alms, paid by the Muslim subjects). Further, the Islamic wave brought with it and spread its sophistication, science, math, medicine, philosophy, art, music & poetry, and many other cultural elements. The Persian empire did the same - acquiring vast swaths of territory, yet treating the conquered people well & even embracing their cultures & religions - with Cyrus the Great even drawing up the first known bill of human rights. Cyrus freed the slaves, declared that all people had the right to choose their own religion, established racial equality, and allowed deported people (including Jews) to return to their homelands. These and other decrees were recorded on a baked-clay cylinder called the "Cyrus Cylinder" in the Akkadian language with cuneiform script in 539 BC.

By contrast, we can look at how white Europeans have treated non-whites everywhere they ventured & invaded - with their wanton, unprovoked, unrelenting & blind brutality. Medieval European literature often referred to Muslims as "infidels" or "pagans - but in particularly, Jews were treated far worse for centuries.

Christian Persecution of Jews - The Medieval Era
After a few centuries of freedom from harassment during the Carolingian period (800-1000), the Jews of western Europe began to suffer new indignities as the crusades came on. The Muslims were the "infidel" targets in the attempted recapture of the holy places in Palestine. However, the pillage and slaughter committed by Christian mobs against Jews on the way linger long in Jewish memory.
https://www.ushmm.org/research/abou...istian-persecution-of-jews-over-the-centuries

See the lengthy history of the expulsion & exoduses of Jews by Europeans
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expulsions_and_exoduses_of_Jews

Even to this day European anti-Jewish sentiment exists and is again on the rise (and growing) - this, along with growing anti-Muslim groups.

Anti-Semitism in Europe
While [anti-Semitism] has been cited as having been expressed in the intellectual and political centers of ancient Greece and the Roman Empire, the phenomenon received greater institutionalization within European Christianity following the dissolution of the ancient center of Jewish culture, Jerusalem, resulting in the forced segregation of Jewish populations and restrictions on their participation in the public life of European society at times.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitism_in_Europe



A note about Armenia's inclusion on this chart:
A major source of antisemitism in Armenia is Israel's strong relations with and arms sales to Azerbaijan. During the 2020 Nagorno-Karabakh War, Nagorno-Karabakh president Arayik Harutyunyan accused Israel of complicity in a 'genocide' against Armenians. Armenians in Lebanon burned the Israeli flag, along with the Turkish and Azerbaijani flags at a protest during that war.

---------------------------------------------------------------

Hell, white Europeans couldn't even get along with one another - eg, the Crusades' war on "heretics", the Inquisition & Vatican's persecution of Jews & "heretics", Protestans vs Catholics, the 300 year English witch trials, the English Civil War, the Wars of the Roses, the wars between European empires, bigotry against the Irish in America, the American Revolutionary War, the American Civil War, the Spanish-American War, WWI, WWII, the Russian revolution, and so on. And look at how the Israeli govt (ruled by white, non-Semitic foreign "Jews") treats Muslims, and even its resident Christians & Orthodox Jews.

And that's not even mentioning the wanton environmental plundering & devastation perpetrated by white European capitalist-colonialists on a global level.

Funny how you focus on the Islamic regions surrounding Israel - the most volatile part of the Middle East, thanks to the destabilizing presence of Israel, its support/weaponization/funding by the US, and US/Western military occupation & invasions. Is the subsequent negative treatment/hatred/suspicion of Jews & Christians by Muslims in that region so shocking? Is it so shocking that Jihadist resistance groups (called "terrorists" by the West) have emerged? This is a common occurrence when there's war. Recall in WWII how the US govt treated Japanese Americans.

Yet Iran seems to be an outlier nation in the Middle East. Christians & Jews continue to be treated well despite ongoing tensions with Israel & the US.

Christianity, Judaism and Zoroastrianism are officially recognized and protected, and have reserved seats in the Iranian parliament. Iran is home to the second largest Jewish community in the Muslim world and the Middle East.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Iran

And then there's the good 'ol US. The US is not currently involved in any major war (other than its standard fare of sanctions, proxy wars & covert operations), yet look at the continuing tensions between whites & minorities within its borders - plus the ongoing culture clashes.

 

This is typical Israel govt (Zionist) propaganda, and which you have zero proof of. The IDF can't even tell who is "Hamas" and who isn't when they slaughter Palestinians, which is why no Israel govt spokesperson can provide any definitive number of how many Hamas militants they've killed out of tens of thousands of civilian deaths (at least 15,000 being children).

And of course Hamas/Palestinian militants will be mixed with civilians because they don't have the means to construct army, air force, or naval bases. They are an armed resistance whose ranks have undoubtedly grown with the angry victims of those who lost family/friends/loved ones, neighborhoods, homes, and farms.

Palestinians are a Semitic people native to the region and, like any group that's oppressed/killed/pushed off their land, will put up an armed resistance in any way they can. Go look at history and you'll see hundreds of examples of this. Anyone who resists oppression cannot be called a "terrorist" - although the oppressor will exploit this term for propaganda to dupe the weak-minded & to legitimize their agenda.

First:
Palestine existed long before the Ottoman Empire, which didn't emerge until only the 13th Century, and lasting until 1922.

In early times, Palestine was inhabited by Semitic peoples, the earliest being the Canaanites. According to tradition, Abraham, the common ancestor of the Jews and the Arabs, came from Ur to Canaan. When the tribes of Israel came to Palestine after their captivity in Egypt, they were united into one kingdom by King David in 1000 B.C. This kingdom reached its greatest heights under King David’s son, Solomon, who built the first Temple of Jerusalem on Mount Moriah. However, after Solomon’s death, the history of the people of Israel – or rather of the two kingdoms of Israel and Judah – is a record of civil wars and struggles with alien tribes.
https://www.un.org/unispal/document/auto-insert-206581/

Palestinians, among other Levantine groups, were found to derive 81–87% of their ancestry from Bronze age Levantines, relating to Canaanites as well as Kura–Araxes culture impact from before 2400 BCE. (4400 years before present); 8–12% from an East African source and 5–10% from Bronze age Europeans. [...] More recent studies since 2017 have found that Palestinians, and other Levantine people, are primarily descended from ancient Levantines present in what is today Israel and Palestine, dating back at least 3700 years.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origin_of_the_Palestinians

Second:
There doesn't need to be an "independent state" for there to be an indigenous population that's lived in the region for thousands of years. In fact, there have been NO official nation-states with well defined & defended borders throughout history until the 17th or 18th Centuries. Various conquerors would come and go throughout the region - taking, occupying, ruling, and later losing territories with the next conqueror.

Third:
Your comment is akin to proclaiming that European colonialists had the right to steal & plunder the land, commit genocide, relocate native Americans, and establish a nation-state (America) because the native Americans didn't have an official "independent state" or a "capital city."

Keep in mind that prior to 1948, Palestine was home to a diverse population of Arabs, Jews, and Christians, as all groups had religious ties to the area, especially the city of Jerusalem - and they all lived in relative peace in the land of milk & honey - that is, until the invasion of white, non-Semitic foreigners (with no historic or genetic ties to the region) who flooded in by the millions to establish settlements under the protection & support of the Western powers.

Capital:
In early times, Palestine was inhabited by Semitic peoples, the earliest being the Canaanites. According to tradition, Abraham, the common ancestor of the Jews and the Arabs, came from Ur to Canaan. When the tribes of Israel came to Palestine after their captivity in Egypt, they were united into one kingdom by King David in 1000 B.C.

The small town of Ramla, less than five kilometres from Tel Aviv International airport, was once the capital of Palestine, yet today it is a rundown area neglected by the modern state of Israel. Ramla was founded as a new town in the early eighth century by the Umayyad prince (later caliph) Sulayman ibn 'Abd al-Malik.

Government:
All tribal groups lived under some form of govt set up by the conqueror du jour, as did all ancient people in the region.

States or Tribes:
There were no states - only conquered territories, some ruled by a kingdom, and all with various resident tribal groups.

 

Some of these Hezbollah folks are getting mighty explody since they committed the kids soccer game massacre

THIS JUST IN: JustTheNews reporting:

“A commander in Hezbollah’s al-Hajj Radwan Force was killed on Saturday in Lebanon, the group confirmed. The Israeli Defense Forces released footage that showed the drone strike that reportedly killed Hussein Ibrahim Kassab, according to the New York Post.”

'AOC, Ilhan Omar and Kamala Harris could not be reached for comment.'

'the death of Kassab is the 412th killing of a Hezbollah operative since Oct. 7 when Hamas attacked Israel from Gaza, killing about 1,200 people and taking 251 hostage, which started this current, ongoing war.'

 

Great post and great read. Highly recommend.

 

Two Hamas leaders nailed in Jenin today. Sucks to be them.

 

The proof of who the "savages" are will be shown when what's left of the hostages are released. I think a lot of them are dead, and that's part of the reason why Hamas is dragging their feet and showing up to the negotiations.

 

There's a simple solution then; don't form an "armed resistance" then. There's no G-d right to slaughter others, just because they happen to be Jewish.

Human migration has occurred since time immemorial. Otherwise the Great Rift Valley of Africa would have become a very crowded place. And every group that is successful rather than being a failure is not an "oppressor." The Zionists bought most of the land fair and square and had every right to it.

Was the Ottoman Empire an oppressor as well?

When I bought my house in 1992, did I have to search the chain of title to find out if the seller was an "oppressor" who took the house from someone? Don't answer that. When we bought the house, the owner's estranged woman-friend was living there. We made sure she was out before we closed. Was the owner an "oppressor?" Was I an "oppressor" by purchasing from the owner?

So that makes the final conqueror a violator of "indigenous" rights? Oh I forgot, yes, because they are Jewish.

Let's see with what diatribe you respond?

Why would Europeans not have a right to migrate? I am truly sorry that their smallpox and other diseases decimated 95%+ of the people. People move, stuff happens. History isn't static. I guess you would prefer it be static when a successful, accomplishing group prevails, but allow "armed resistance" for people who do nothing but procreate and kill people.

While the Jews were busy farming, building cities, symphony orchestras, other groups were busy killing people and making babies.

You mean some dictator took charge and lived lavishly while his people lived penuriously. I get that.

 

Do you know the Balfour Declaration? By what authority do the British or other Europeans hold to give away Palestine?

 

By what authority is the Sudan government liquidating lots of people?

 

Thanks for a stand for dishonest discussion. Your choice not to answer a simple question suggests you don't like the answer, suggests you're not comfortable with your chosen position.

 

I answered that movement of peoples, by conquest or otherwise, is inevitable. Wars occur. Human migration occurs. Get used to it.

You don't like it because in this case the Jews won (even though the Declaration was not honored). The Jews then did it themselves. They don't need your permission to migrate.

 

Is there a moral distinction between the barbaric actions taken by the Hamas terrorists on Oct. 7 and the IDF bombings that have killed thousands of women and children in Gaza?

 

For sure. Hamas hides beneath civilians. The Israeli civilians were not intermingled with military or in a military target.

 

What is the efficacy of seeking protection from the presence of the civilian population since Israel's defense forces bomb civilians in an attempt to kill Hamas fighters?

 

You're deliberately conflating internecine wars with colonial satellite states.

You may as well state that the Dutch apartheid colony in south Africa was legitimate and Cecil Rhodes led a moral crusade in Rhodesia.

Are you a "Rhodesia relic" by any chance?

Bumped heads with a few of those in my 23 years.

 

Keep killing the bad guys.

Israeli Assassinations Are Near-Daily In Lebanon, Airstrikes Reaching Deeper

'Hezbollah has sent hundreds of rockets into Israel over last 72 hours...'

Israel fights for civilization.
The Terrorists fight for Rape, Murder, Beheadings, Irrational Hatred of Jews, and Tyrannical Control.

Blow up there, so they don't explode in Israel

'Israel Defense Forces (IDF) describing that fighter jets attacked a "Hezbollah weapons storage facilities in the area of Bekaa Valley in Lebanon" - resulting in massive fireballs lighting up the night sky.'

'Wednesday has seen at least 50 Hezbollah rockets fired on northern Israel, reportedly in response to the IDF assassinating a top Palestinian official from the West Bank who was in southern Lebanon when his vehicle was struck. The targeted killing happened outside the southern Lebanese port city of Sidon. Al Jazeera's correspondent details:'

'The strike targeted Khalil al-Maqdah, a commander in the Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigades, a loose coalition of Palestinian groups that believe in armed resistance. The Martyrs Brigades issued a statement, calling [al-Maqdah] a commander who played a key role in supporting the Palestinian people and supporting Palestinian resistance in the West Bank.'

 

(1) That works in reverse too. If one wishes to avoid conflicts/wars & potential death/injury of one's people, then don't steal land, and don't destroy the lives of those native to the land.

(2) There's no god-given right to steal land & destroy the lives of native residents just because they're not white, non-Semitic foreign Jews.

(3) What part of "armed resistance" don't you understand? Where in those two words does it say "kill Jews"? It's about resisting a brutal, oppressive regime - in this case, the anti-Semitic Zionist Israeli govt.

Peaceful migrations are not the issue. The issue is oppression & persecution, killings, continued land grabs, and socio-economic & political upheaval by a foreign power in what was before a peaceful region.

Not exactly.

According to the research, the Ottomons ruled with relative peace & tolerance, and absent of the usual brutal oppression typical of European empires, during its first four centuries. It was only during the last two of its six centuries of power when it came under rule by a brutal military dictatorship. The populations that were subject to the oppressive transformation of Ottomon rule had every right to resist/revolt - which various groups (including the Saudis/Arabs) did, and which ultimately led to its downfall. Further, these groups didn't resist/revolt because the empire was Islamic, Jewish, or Christian, but because it became a brutal oppressor.

The Israeli Zionist settlement-colony (other than being a beggar nation) has proved to be, in many respects, far worse than the Ottoman empire during the empire's first four centuries of power - but no better than the Ottomans during its last two centuries of rule.

During its 600-year reign (1299 - 1922), the Ottoman Empire made significant advances in science and technology, and in a wide range of fields including mathematics, physics, metallurgy, astronomy, geography, medicine, architecture, education, music, art, business, govt administration, data gathering/collection, and so on - and which had a tremendous influence on Europe. In fact, Europeans had given Suleiman (who reigned 1520 - 1566) the moniker "The Magnificent", while he was called "The Lawgiver" by his own subjects.


The ‘Unholy’ Alliance: Jews, Turks, and Ottomans During the 15th and 16th Centuries
The study concluded that no other Muslim state, possibly with the exception of Umayyads of Andalusia, welcomed Jews in such large numbers and with such great living space and opportunities in Islam history. Whereas the contacts between the Muslims and Jewish millet were limited in nature the pragmatic, rational and flexible Ottoman raison d’etat provided the Jews with extensive privileges beyond the confines of dhimmi status. Nevertheless, the presence of the Jews in the Empire contributed significantly in the political and economic success of the Ottoman Empire in becoming a hegemonic power of the pre-modern times.
[...]
The Turco-Islamic Tradition:
Throughout history Turkic nations have established many states. In most of these states they had the experience of ruling over non-Turkic populations. Moreover, Turkic people embraced many religions in history, and co-habited with people of other faiths. Therefore, when the Turks established the Ottoman State in Anatolia where there was a large Christian population they did not have the problem of adjusting to a multi-religious environment. Even the ruling class of the Ottoman State had many converts from Christianity. In terms of state-building and preserving the states Turks have had the tradition of paying tolerance towards different ethnicities and religions. Turks began to accept Islam en masse starting in the 8th century in Central Asia. The conversion of Turkic tribes to Islam continued as a long and drawn out process. During this process Turks had time to grow familiar with Sasanid, Seljukid and Byzantine state practices in regards to communal autonomy until they established the Ottoman state in Anatolia. This experience impacted their understanding of those aspects of the Shari’a that related to the non-Muslim communities. Like all Muslim rulers before them, Ottomans adopted the dhimma (protected) system in order to regulate its relations with its non-Muslim subjects. According to this practice, Christians and Jews were protected by the Muslim rulers by dhimma (covenant of protection). Dhimmi (protected) practice was applied in concordance with shari’a in Islamic states throughout history. However, in the application of shari’a the Ottomans followed the Hanafi rite of jurisprudence, which is the most liberal of the four Sunni rites according to historian Avigdor Levy. Therefore, “in its attitude towards its non-Muslim subjects,
the Ottoman Empire was one of the most tolerant Muslim states ever to exist…Their [Ottomans’] system was…more flexible and subject to change, reinterpretation, and the adoption of new elements.” Although Ottoman rulers were Muslim, they kept the Central Asian secular Turkic state tradition intact in order to hold absolute authority. Accordingly, besides shari’a (Islamic law) they preserved töre (yasa) i.e. a derivative of constitutional law, which became the basis for traditional law (örfikanun) along with customs. In most cases traditional law supplemented shari’a a characteristic that made the Ottoman legal system pragmatic and flexible in regards to issues remaining out of Islamic law. For example according to yasa, “those who produced wealth for the ruler’s treasury or provided him with luxury goods or with information were believed to be indispensable for his power”. This explains why the Ottoman sultans favored the Jews with certain skills.
https://dergipark.org.tr/en/download/article-file/2265287


Forgetting the Ottoman past has done the Arabs no good
As a historian of the Ottoman Empire, I believe it is criminal to keep millions of people disconnected from their own recent past.
In places like Syria and Lebanon, probably the best-known Ottoman official is military commander Ahmed Cemal (Jamal) Pasha, infamously nicknamed “al-Saffah” (the Butcher). His wartime governorship of the provinces of Syria and Beirut was marked by political violence and executions of Arab-Ottoman politicians and intellectuals and remains in public memory as the symbol of Ottoman rule. But as historian Salim Tamari has pointed out, it is wrong to reduce “four centuries of relative peace and dynamic activity [during] the Ottoman era” to “four miserable years of tyranny symbolized by the military dictatorship of Ahmad Cemal Pasha in Syria” (the overseer of the Armenian Genocide). Indeed, Ottoman imperial history in the Arab world cannot be boiled down to a “Turkish occupation” or a “foreign yoke”. We cannot grapple with this 400-year history from 1516 to 1917 without coming to terms with the fact that it was a homegrown form of imperial rule. [...] It is also important to understand why, more than 100 years since the end of the empire, the erasure of the deeply rooted and intimate connections between the Middle East, North Africa, and Southeast Europe continues, and who benefits from this erasure. We must ask ourselves why is it that researchers from Arabic-speaking-majority countries frequent French and English imperial archives, but do not spend the time or the resources to learn Ottoman-Turkish in order to take advantage of four centuries worth of records readily available at the Ottoman imperial archives in Istanbul or local archives in former provincial capitals? [...] Millions of records in Ottoman-Turkish await students from across the Arabic-speaking-majority world to take the plunge into serious research that uses the full range of sources, both on the local and imperial levels.
https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2023/8/20/forgetting-the-ottoman-past-has-done-the-arabs-no-good

Apples & oranges. This kind of thing is sanctioned by all societies with an institutionalized monetary/capitalist system. It has nothing to do with foreign invaders conquering large regions of land & oppressing (or enslaving, slaughtering) an entire population of natives to further its agenda of expanding its wealth & power.

Yes, in fact it does make the latest conqueror of the region a major violator of both indigenous & human rights - and the reason why the ICC wishes to arrest & prosecute Netanyahu for war crimes (not to mention, ~71% of Israeli citizens want Netanyahu to resign).

And no, it's not because they are "Jewish", but because the Israeli govt has been a brutal occupational regime since its inception for over seven decades. Your worship of anything "Jewish" seems to muddle your ability to distinguish between the two - not to mention your lack of appreciation for historical fact.

This has nothing to do with migrations of people.

The issue is the expulsion of almost a million Palestinian Arab locals, socio-economic upheaval, theft/confiscation of land, destruction of homes/hospitals/schools/industries/vital infrastructure, destruction of farms & orchards, slaughter of tens of thousands of the locals, upheaval of the local culture & regional peace, over-population & over-development from continued foreign immigration & settlement, and continued oppression by a new, foreign govt - all sanctioned, supported & funded by the US & UK.

Such wild, bigoted hyperbole. You need to educate yourself. Here's a start:

How peace flourished in Ottoman Palestine: A story of coexistence
Palestine, which yearns for peace and stability for over a century, saw its longest period of peace during the 401 years of Ottoman rule, from the conquest of Jerusalem in 1516 to the dawn of the British Mandate in 1917. [...] In hindsight, the troubles for Palestine began when, in 1918, the Ottoman Empire was forced to cede the territory to the League of Nations, who handed it over for the British to administer as a Mandate. As it was later revealed, the British and the French had other ideas, having already secretly signed the Sykes-Picot Agreement in 1916 and publicly announced the Balfour Declaration in 1917. [...] “Ottoman Palestine holds great significance towards understanding Palestinian history and identity. It was a time when the three monotheistic religions coexisted without conflict,”
https://www.trtworld.com/turkiye/ho...man-palestine-a-story-of-coexistence-15612345

And yet the region of ancient Palestine & the broader Levant remained in relative peace within the high cultured kingdoms of various empires (while Europeans were still living in the Dark Ages). That is, until the creation of the beggar settler nation called "Israel" in 1948 - always ruled by non-Semitic European/Eastern European/Russian Zionist foreigners, supported & funded to the tune of $billions annually by the West - and, as an oppressive terrorist state in the Middle East, has caused nothing but relentless suffering & conflict.

It would be a misnomer to label these foreign occupiers as anything but glorified squatters.

 

Useful idiots in Western countries who believe Hamas propaganda about Israel targeting civilians do everything in their power to vilify Israel, bully Jews to silence pro-Israel stances, threaten pro-Israel politicians, spread and legitimize antisemitism thinly disguised as activism for human rights, incite violence against Jews ("globalize the Intifada"), and call for the destruction of Israel. This is the efficacy.