Israelis vilified for lack of "sympathy" for Hamas savages

Your sources lie.

 

I did not make the claim the IDF is targeting civilians. Merely that the presence of civilians is not a deterrent in Israel's effort to kill members of Hamas. Consequently, Israel has been slaughtering innocent people by the thousands. Which is why Netanyahu (Hamas leaders have been charged too) has been charged with war crimes. Rightly so.

 

There's another component to the discussion which needs to be considered. Namely, the decades long, systematic, illegal, annexation of land by Israel.

Israeli settlements violate international law, U.N.'s top court says in a landmark opinion

Policies and practices used by Israel in its occupation of Palestinian territories are in breach of international law, the United Nations’ top court said in a landmark opinion Friday.

The International Court of Justice said in its opinion, which was read out by Judge Nawaf Salam, president of the world body, that Israeli settlements in the occupied West Bank and East Jerusalem, as well as “the regime associated with them,” were established and are being maintained in violation of international law.

The ICJ said Israel should cease all new settlement activities and evacuate settlers from Palestinian territories.

It further said that Israel systematically discriminated against Palestinians and branded the occupation of the territories as “de facto annexation,” and that Israel’s exploitation of natural resources in the Palestinian territories likewise violates international law.

Its “unlawful policies and practices” were “in breach of the Israeli government’s obligation to respect the right of the Palestinian people’s right to self-determination,” the court said.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/...ttlement-violate-international-law-rcna162667

The ICJ ruling is recent. The unlawful practices have been recognized for years.

STATUS OF SETTLEMENTS UNDER INTERNATIONAL LAW

Israel’s policy of settling its civilians in occupied Palestinian territory and displacing the local population contravenes fundamental rules of international humanitarian law.

Article 49 of the Fourth Geneva Convention states: “The Occupying Power shall not deport or transfer parts of its own civilian population into the territory it occupies.” It also prohibits the “individual or mass forcible transfers, as well as deportations of protected persons from occupied territory”.

The extensive appropriation of land and the appropriation and destruction of property required to build and expand settlements also breach other rules of international humanitarian law. Under the Hague Regulations of 1907, the public property of the occupied population (such as lands, forests and agricultural estates) is subject to the laws of usufruct. This means that an occupying state is only allowed a very limited use of this property. This limitation is derived from the notion that occupation is temporary, the core idea of the law of occupation. In the words of the International Committee of the Red Cross, the occupying power “has a duty to ensure the protection, security, and welfare of the people living under occupation and to guarantee that they can live as normal a life as possible, in accordance with their own laws, culture, and traditions.”

The Hague Regulations prohibit the confiscation of private property. The Fourth Geneva Convention prohibits the destruction of private or state property, “except where such destruction is rendered absolutely necessary by military operations”.

As the occupier, Israel is therefore forbidden from using state land and natural resources for purposes other than military or security needs or for the benefit of the local population. The unlawful appropriation of property by an occupying power amounts to “pillage”, which is prohibited by both the Hague Regulations and Fourth Geneva Convention and is a war crime under the Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court and many national laws.
https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/c...-3-israeli-settlements-and-international-law/

 

You wondered how Hamas benefits from using their own population as human shields.

According to international law, the presence of civilians in or near legitimate enemy military targets should not be a deterrent.

Israel didn't sign the Rome Statute. The ICC has no jurisdiction over Israeli leaders. The ICC overstepped its authority. Kangaroo court.

 

Now we know why. The same reason they didn't agree to immigration restrictions before declaring "independence."

 

What the hell are you talking about? Areas where civilians live do not become "legitimate enemy targets" because enemy combatants seek protection there. Your attempt to put Israel on the moral high ground after what they have done, and are doing, is an absurdity. Both sides have committed atrocities but the IDF's indiscriminate use of superior weaponry on civilian populations is inexcusable.

 

Ever heard of the principle of proportionality in war?

The principle of proportionality applies when civilian casualties and/or damage to civilian objects may foreseeably result from attacks on military objectives. The fact that extensive civilian casualties are anticipated as a result of an attack does not make that attack illegal.​

https://lieber.westpoint.edu/application-principle-military-advantage-determining-proportionality/

The presence of civilians in or near military targets is not a deterrent.

 

Proportionality is the application of force necessary to stop the enemy from attacking you further. Israel has yet to apply this level of force to Hezbollah, Hamas, Islamic Jihad, Yemen or Iran.

PBS’ Judy Woodruff apologizes for falsely telling live audience Trump tried to talk Israel out of cease-fire deal https://trib.al/tw1K11F

Judy Woodruff lies like a rug.



Millions heard her lie,
Thousands heard her retract her lie.
That's the way these lying propagandizing bastards roll.

 

Ever heard of "Self-legitimacy"?
Self-legitimacy concerns the confidence power-holders have in the moral validity of their power.


From your West Point link, it states:

The fact that extensive civilian casualties are anticipated as a result of an attack does not make that attack illegal. Rather, proportionality requirements are violated only when expected civilian casualties and damage to civilian objects are excessive in relation to the “concrete and direct military advantage anticipated”

Other than the self-legitimizing declaration that the anticipation of civilian casualties doesn't make the attack "illegal" (says the fox to the chickens as the fox writes his own laws), one could easily assess the Israeli response to OCT 7 as most certainly excessive.

Plus, this is not a war between nations that are on an equal footing - but a war between a heavily militarized, well-funded, illegal, oppressive foreign occupational force and a demilitarized, civilian indigenous population without an army, air force, or navy.

Palestinian Security Services
In the Israeli–Palestinian peace process, Israel has consistently demanded that the Palestinian state would always be demilitarized.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_Security_Services

 

The principle of proportionality in war is international humanitarian law. Nothing to do with self-legitimacy, foxes, chickens, or national governments.

You rely heavily on falsehoods and logical fallacies in your posts, like all anti-Zionists.

 

I was talking about the principle of proportionality in war in international humanitarian law, not the doctrine of proportionality.

 

Oh? But the words on the West Point page are indeed a form of self-legitimacy. That's how our military gets away with slaughtering mass numbers of civilians all over the world with impunity. They can kill as many as they want and simply claim that the expected civilian casualties and damage to civilian objects were not excessive in relation to the “concrete and direct military advantage anticipated."

And I noticed also that you didn't deny that Israel used excessive force when it murdered ~41,000 Palestinians (~13,000 children) & devastated Gaza. What happened to "international humanitarian law" as outlined in West Point's doctrines? Is it okay for Israel to use excessive force on a civilian population?

 

Again: the principle of proportionality is international humanitarian law, not an American self-legitimacy trick.

https://casebook.icrc.org/a_to_z/gl...ts,and direct military advantage anticipated”.

The International Committee of The Red Cross is not a West Point institution, is it?

More logical fallacies and gaslighting. Even the UN admitted that the sources for the number of civilian casualties in Gaza - the Hamas-run Health Ministry and Hamas media office - are not reliable.

I live in Israel. I know your sources are lying.

 

Got it! Thanks.

 

What difference does it make? Is it still not a doctrine adopted by the US Army & applicable to how the US Army is expected to conduct itself in war?

Has the Israeli military response been excessive or not? And does one even need to refer to a doctrine to answer that question?

You're trying to avoid the main question by appealing to the Red Cross' doctrines - but which doesn't even support your argument regarding excessive force used by the IDF. And I don't know why you even brought up this topic since Israel doesn't follow any humanitarian etiquette in war.

It appears your govt has been lying to you.

Some facts to keep in mind:

* From the Lancet (JULY 2024): The Gaza Health Ministry is the only organization counting the dead. By June 19, 2024, 37,396 people had been killed in the Gaza Strip. The Ministry's figures have been contested by the Israeli authorities, although they have been accepted as accurate by Israeli intelligence services, the UN, and WHO. These data are supported by independent analyses, comparing changes in the number of deaths of UN Relief and Works Agency (UNRWA) staff with those reported by the Ministry, which found claims of data fabrication implausible.

* From the Lancet: Gaza Health Ministry now reports separately the number of unidentified bodies among the total death toll. As of May 10, 2024, 30% of the 35,091 deaths were unidentified. Some officials and news agencies have used this development, designed to improve data quality, to undermine the veracity of the data. However, the number of reported deaths is likely an underestimate.

* From the Lancet: The UN estimates that, by Feb 29, 2024, 35% of buildings in the Gaza Strip had been destroyed, so the number of bodies still buried in the rubble is likely substantial, with estimates of more than 10,000.

* The UN's latest revised numbers still remain around 35,000 casualties, but with ~52% being women & children.

* The GMO cites around 35,000 casualties, but with a higher percentage (~70%) being women & children.

* Netanyahu even admits to a figure of at least 30,000 casualties, with 14,000 being “terrorists” and 16,000 civilians, but without providing any evidence. (Note: The Israeli govt has never been able to confirm its "Hamas deaths" figures.)

* The interim measures set out by the International Court of Justice in January, 2024, require Israel to “take effective measures to prevent the destruction and ensure the preservation of evidence related to allegations of acts within the scope of … the Genocide Convention”.

 

FA, MEET FO: Hezbollah terrorist cell that fired rockets to northern Israel eliminated by Israeli Air Force.

Seeking Proportionality

 

Lebanon is not Gaza.

 

To create world pressure on Israel to stop.

 

Lebanon is firing on Israel in support of Hamas, and you know it.

A proportionate response is one that results in your enemy deciding not to attack you further.

https://hotair.com/ed-morrissey/202...attack-on-hezbollah-stop-a-wider-war-n3793760

'the signs coming not just from Beirut but also Tehran suggest that Israel has successfully reset the disincentives to war that the October 7 massacres undermined. '

'Reporting today from the Times of Israel shows just how ineffective the retaliation attack from Hezbollah turned out to be. They didn't hit any of their intended targets, even accounting for the destruction of the pre-emptive strike conducted by the IDF. And yet Hassan Nasrallah seemed very eager on Sunday to declare himself satisfied that they had paid back Israel for the strike that took out Fuad Shukr:'

'Israel killed Shukr in a strike in Beirut on July 30, three days after a Hezbollah rocket killed 12 Israeli children in Majdal Shams on the Golan Heights, in an attack for which Israel held Shukr responsible.'

'Nasrallah ordered a larger-scale but relatively easy-to-parry volley of missiles out of fear of a full-scale war with Israel. That at least speaks to a restoral of deterrence to some extent, even before Israel stopped much of the volley with its pre-emptive attack. The precise hits on leaders of Hezbollah, Hamas, and the IRGC sent enough of a signal about intel and capabilities that both Hezbollah and Iran now worry about escalation as much as the West, if not perhaps more.'

They are all checking their beds for bombs.

 

GOOD: Israel Launches Major Counter-Terrorism Raid in West Bank, Eliminates Top Islamic Jihad Commander.

Bad guy is now dead.

'The Israeli military eliminated a leading Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ) terror commander as it pressed ahead with a major counter-terrorism operation in the West Bank.'

'Mohammed Jaber, wanted for the murder of an Israeli civilian, had masterminded several terrorist attacks. “Muhammad Jabber,”Abu Shujaa”, was involved in carrying out numerous terror attacks, including a shooting attack in which an Israeli civilian, Amnon Muchtar, was murdered in June. Jabber was also involved in the planning of additional terror attacks,”'

'The slain terror commander had managed to survive a previous IDF strike. “The Islamic Jihad militant group confirmed that Mohammed Jaber, known as Abu Shujaa, was killed during a raid in the city of Tulkarem,” the Associated Press reported Thursday. “He became a hero for many Palestinians earlier in the year when he was reported killed in an Israeli operation, only to make a surprise appearance at the funeral of other militants, where he was hoisted onto the shoulders of a cheering crowd.”'

We'll see if he pulls this again.

 

This was predictable because of Israel's continued devastation & humanitarian crimes against the Gaza residents. Arab nations will begin to come, more and more, to the aid of the Palestinians in different ways.

But I believe Netanyahu wants this. He wants more Arab nations to come to the aid of the Palestinians by attacking Israel, so that it will suck the West into a major war with the Middle East. Netanyahu has pressured the US to get into a war with Iran for years now.

 

This won't change anything. Israel can kill all the leaders/Generals/etc. they want, but it won't change the Arab population's view towards Israel - let alone the current negative view of much of the world's population towards Israel. Nor will it weaken Arabic resistance against Israel's violence.

Israel is digging itself deeper into a hole it won't be able to get out of - even with Western support.