Jesus PBUH called God "Allah"

You don't understand what I am telling you. If it was corrupted in Muhammad's day, then why would he say that he could be found in those same scriptures ? Look at codex Sinaiticus ONLINE http://codexsinaiticus.org/en/ THIS Bible was before Muhammad's time and 'no' muhammad... Understand that we have the complete scriptures of Muhammad's time and even 300 years before his time so that argument does not work.

If it was removed then that would mean that the Quran is incorrect in that scripture that I provided.

What ? He was talking about our scriptures having him in them. Well we have our scriptures,the very scriptures that he was talking about, and he is not in them.

Out of respect ? lol But you did comment on them, you said that they were corrupt ... You also cut and pasted them and I did point out a couple and showed you that they were not contradictions. Not all 194 but I'm not going through the list if you don't at least acknowledge that the website you provided from was simply incorrect.

 

Muslims belief is already wrong as evident of their very dysfunctional situation, Muslims in order to settle conflicting verses resort to abrogation rule the problem is most of the good verses of tolerant, love, peace etc. were on the first part of the Quran, while most of the violent verses of war and killing infidels and apostates which is what the radical Muslims are using are in the second part of the Quran and because Muslims have strike out many of Jesus teachings on none violence and their refusal to accept Jesus is the Son of Allah and his resurrection that He is Allah is the main cause why Islam is all wrong. There is the absence of an authoritative figure in Islam and they all relay on Mohammed only, I guess that is why many of Jesus teachings were strike out to give legitimacy to Mohammed.

They can't or refuse to accept or see the clear differences of Gabriel-Mohammed who is very arrogant, not knowing, very aggressive, no power from Allah 3x forcing Mohammed to read ending in terrifying Mohammed and Muslims could not explain what is it that Gabriel want Mohammed to read from was there a book the first Quran? and Gabriel-Mary which is characteristic of the Bible Gabriel very polite, all knowing, able to perform a miracle through the power of Allah, Mary became pregnant without a human father.

No Muslim / Muslims can give a logical answer except that it is what it is, in other words there are two Gabriel. And when presented with other verses such as Sura 9:5 they spin all out of context insisting that it is a self defence verse when clearly it is not. Self defence from what, from them selves.

 

(source wikipedia)

The Black Stone is a significant feature of the Kaaba,
stated by Muslims to have been placed there by Ibrahim (Abraham)
and Ismail (Ishmael), a stone from paradise sent by the angels to
Ibrahim.[14] Located at the eastern corner of the Kaaba, it is about
30 cm (12 in) in diameter and surrounded by a silver frame. Although
not strictly obligatory, pilgrims can kiss the Stone, as Muhammad is
said to have done. Islamic sources do not consider kissing the black
stone to be idolatry.[15] The following passage gives an insight into
the significance of the Black Stone in Islam:

Narrated 'Abis bin Rabia: Umar came near the Black Stone and kissed it
and said, "No doubt, I know that you are a stone and can neither benefit
anyone nor harm anyone. Had I not seen God's Apostle kissing you,
I would not have kissed you."
—al-Bukhari, Muhammad ibn Ismail, Sahih al-Bukhari, Volume 2,
Book 26, Number 667.

Large crowds can make kissing the Stone impossible, so as pilgrims walk
round the Kaaba they point to the Stone on each pass.[16]​

your main point is that Islam encourages idolatry.
nothing could be farther from the truth;
because no other religion opposes idolatry as vehemently as islam.

as for the black stone in the kabah, it is not an idol;
and nobody worships it. it is simply 'a black stone' and its chief
use in the kabah during pilgrimage is as a marking stone.

then again, however you perceive things is your truth.
and mine is mine.

but i would try to find something else, because really a theory must
be consistent and match up with the whole doctrine.
you are trying to accuse the only perfect monotheistic religion
(ask even jews about it) is the world to become idolaters.

and guys... trinity?
what is trinity?

there is no mention of black stone worship in the qur'an...
in islam; idolatry it's "the" only unforgivable sin.

i mean the whole qur'an is about that.
"do not worship other than Allah (God)"...

really; come up with something else.
in my opinion you are wasting time insisting on this point.

in his lifetime, our prophet (saw) even insisted on not calling him
"master", so that people don't do the same mistake and
worship him like they worshiped jesus (pbuh).

in islam;
no matter what you do in this life as good deeds (you may be the
nicest person in the world) but if you worship something other than
Allah (God) then all your deeds becomes nothing just like "dust in the wind"
at the judgement day. Allahu a'lem (Allah knows best)...

14:18
The example of those who disbelieve in their Lord is [that] their deeds
are like ashes which the wind blows forcefully on a stormy day; they are
unable [to keep] from what they earned a [single] thing. That is what is
extreme error.​

be well.

 

the function of a false god is to be worshiped.

being a servant is in human nature.
humanity become servant of...
idols, money, own desires, women, men, clergy...
those are all diversions, we know that.

we seek the perfection in this imperfect life.
the "only one" that is perfect and eternal.
because we are created eternal too.

we believe in islam that the same message has been given
to humanity many times: (124.000 prophets sent down according
to a hadith) to worship Allah (God) alone, the creator of heavens
and the earth, the one and only.

but the message has been altered.
over and over and over and over again...
this time, with the qur'an the message is protected by Allah (God).
and this time the message is for all humanity, not for a specific
nation or a tribe.

(check my prev posts here: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5)

idolatry is the only sin not forgiven by Allah (God).
it's what islam is all about: worship Allah, try to be a better human being,
fight against evil, injustice and taghut

check the article here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shirk_(Islam)

lesser shirk:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shirk_(Islam)#Lesser_Shirk

note that Allah (God) does not need your worship.
you need to worship him.

if the whole mankind becomes hanifs like abraham,
then it wouldn't add anything to Allah (God);
and if the whole world becomes idolaters then it wouldn't
remove anything from Allah (God)...

i would like to finalize my words with the noble qur'an...
among the countless ayahs against idolatry i picked these...
these are the last words of abraham, jacob, luqman (pbu.them) as
a will to their children:

31:13
And [mention, O Muhammad], when Luqman said to his son while
he was instructing him, "O my son, do not associate [anything]
with Allah . Indeed, association [with him] is great injustice."

2:132-133
And Abraham instructed his sons [to do the same] and [so did] Jacob,
[saying], "O my sons, indeed Allah has chosen for you this religion,
so do not die except while you are Muslims."

Or were you witnesses when death approached Jacob, when he said to
his sons, "What will you worship after me?" They said, "We will worship
your God and the God of your fathers, Abraham and Ishmael and Isaac -
one God. And we are Muslims [in submission] to Him."​

as the last thing to tell your children before leaving this world.
not stay good, not be god to your mother, or not be prosper...

"worship only Allah (God)". clean and simple...

i think it somehow shows the importance to stay away from idolatry.

 

You don't understand what I am telling you. If it was corrupted in Muhammad's day, then why would he say that he could be found in those same scriptures ?

he didn't say.
Allah (God) did.

this is the thing you should get to understand my point:
Allah (God) is the source of all scripture, he is all knowing.

1) and Allah (God) said in the qur'an that he revealed the prophecy
of muhammed (saw) through jesus (pbuh).

2) the bible has been corrupted, but there has been countless versions
of bibles. thus there might still be copies of other bibles that may contain
that information (check here for instance: barnabas bible and check
especially here)


Out of respect ? lol But you did comment on them, you said that they were corrupt ... You also cut and pasted them and I did point out a couple and showed you that they were not contradictions. Not all 194 but I'm not going through the list if you don't at least acknowledge that the website you provided from was simply incorrect.


according to islam bible is corrupt yes.
i was pointing out the inconsistencies and overall incoherence
in the bible and wanted to hear what the christians might say about it.

but i can't pick a specific verse and say: "this one is no good";
because the 99% of that sentence might be altered,
and 1% might be the word of Allah (God).

and that's a risk i cannot take...
that would be disrespecting Allah (God), and your religion.
but i can speak the truth within the parameters i have been given.

these are our instructions in the qur'an:

29:46
And do not argue with the People of the Scripture except in a way
that is best, except for those who commit injustice among them,
and say, "We believe in that which has been revealed to us and
revealed to you. And our God and your God is one; and we are Muslims
[in submission] to Him."

5:82
You will surely find the most intense of the people in animosity toward
the believers [to be] the Jews and those who associate others with Allah;
and you will find the nearest of them in affection to the believers those
who say, "We are Christians." That is because among them are priests
and monks and because they are not arrogant.

109:6
For you is your religion, and for me is my religion.​

you should read the surah al-baqarah (chapter 2) in the qur'an to maybe
have a better understanding of the islamic point of view.

regards.

 

No, my main point is that allah is the name of a god of stones and rocks used by the Arabs before muhammed ever came along, as I have proved through historical sources. And that allah is not to be equated with the God of the Bible. That is my main point.

As a result of proving that, it is also seen that muhammed incorporated the paganism of this rock worship into his supposed 'revealtions' from god. He did this because it fit well into the economical and political need he was facing.

So, all muhammed needs to do is declare this kabbah, which is where the black stone would be placed, as built by Abraham. Thus that supposedly makes it right. But it doesn't. All it does is incorporate the rock worship into something called islam. And it is the most holy place in islam. Isn't it?

You say the black stone is not mentioned in the koran. Well, the kabbah is mentioned several times as the holy place or sacred house. And it is in the kabbah that the black stone is placed. And it is there you get to kiss it.

So, the black stone is very much part of your islam. Trace it back. muhammed did nothing but enslave you into your days of ignorance. You are still in idol worship. Still in your days of ignorance. Turn from you false islam to Jesus Christ the Son of the living God.

Quantrill

 

Same problem, it isn't there.


Look

They did not find, understand ??? They are the people of the time the Quran was written and since we have those scriptures, "they" is also "we" ..

 

look you must understand something...
islam has not arrived with muhammed (pbuh).
it has been "the religion" all along.
you can believe it or refute it.
but this is the pov.

mankind got diverted and made up gods for himself.
they worshiped trees, deified men, multiplied and made up
imaginary gods; they make gods of all creation.
and forgot about the attributes of the creator...

because simply they couldn't see Allah (God).
that is the exam though.

we see as muslims, that the christians fell in the same trap.
and deified a mighty prophet of Allah (God).

that's why jews of arabia called their god Allah.
that's why jesus (pbuh) in aramaic called his god Allah
(go here and type in: God).
that's why some customs of abraham were still present in arabia.
that's why the black stone was there too.

the days of ignorance and darkness has ended with islam.
not the other way around.

that's why we call the era of idolatry before islam
"the age of ignorance".

muhammed (sav) demolished all idols...

kept some traditions inherited from abraham (pbuh)
and black stone is one of them...

if you see this event as a "rock worship", ok then.
there isn't much i can do.
but Allah is not the name of a rock or a moon god.

Allah is the one and only God.

you mentioned ayahs of kaaba.
here they are:

2:125
And [mention] when We made the House a place of return for the people
and [a place of] security. And take, [O believers], from the standing place
of Abraham a place of prayer. And We charged Abraham and Ishmael,
[saying], "Purify My House for those who perform Tawaf and those who
are staying [there] for worship and those who bow and prostrate [in prayer]."

3:96-97
Indeed, the first House [of worship] established for mankind was that at
Makkah - blessed and a guidance for the worlds.

In it are clear signs [such as] the standing place of Abraham. And whoever
enters it shall be safe. And [due] to Allah from the people is a pilgrimage
to the House - for whoever is able to find thereto a way. But whoever
disbelieves - then indeed, Allah is free from need of the worlds.

5:97
Allah has made the Ka'bah, the Sacred House, standing for the people and
[has sanctified] the sacred months and the sacrificial animals and the
garlands [by which they are identified]. That is so you may know that Allah
knows what is in the heavens and what is in the earth and that Allah is
Knowing of all things.

22:26
And [mention, O Muhammad], when We designated for Abraham the site of
the House, [saying], "Do not associate anything with Me and purify My House
for those who perform Tawaf and those who stand [in prayer] and those who
bow and prostrate.​

that's about it.

be well...

 

that's the deal w-e d-o n-o-t have it.

they did find it and hid it during the era of muhammed (saw)...

jews recognized the prophet.
they knew it was him...
but they hid it because the prophethood
was taken from the proud "beni israil".

that's why many jews, including a most appreciated scholar and
leader among them, converted to islam. but most of them remained.
they thought they were "chosen".

addressing to the issue:
how many times the bible has been altered?
i mean even in "king james" after hundreds of years, a newer
version of it; adding many stuff that wasn't even there...

can you guarantee that the people of that time leave the bible alone???
how many version do we have today?

for instance did you check the barnabas bible?

you are looking for proof in abstract lands.

that's the whole deal.
the truth is hidden.
i don't know even where to start...
maybe check vatican archives.

i sure don't have time for it.

 

God is not a slaveholder. Why should he? He's allmighty.

What means "command of Muhamed" and his followers otherwise you would use the word "god"

Good grieve.

Or with other words: "murder makes peace" = "will of god" - http://youtu.be/17hEcSsv57g - independent from everything what god ever said and is also today saying to everyone who is able to hear his words.

I hope one day everyone will be a prophet.

http://youtu.be/L7rbBAiJ5dM

 

LOL when did that happen ?


EDIT: The time of Muhammad was 700 years after Jesus. Do you realize how old the dead sea scrolls were ? They couldn't have hid anything ..

 

Response: In other words, your logic is so deluded that you could not produce a sound rebuttal. So in an effort to sound logical, you give different meaning to the words stated. The problem with that is that it only draws more attention to your delusion, not islam. Thanks for the assistance.

 

during the time of the prophet (saw).
refer to islamic history for that.

~600 (570 – 632)

just like hey couldn't hide the original bible text?

The Dead Sea Scrolls are traditionally divided into three groups:
"Biblical" manuscripts (copies of texts from the Hebrew Bible), which
comprise roughly 40% of the identified scrolls; "Apocryphal" or
"Pseudepigraphical" manuscripts (known documents from the Second
Temple Period like Enoch, Jubilees, Tobit, Sirach, non-canonical psalms,
etc., that were not ultimately canonized in the Hebrew Bible), which
comprise roughly 30% of the identified scrolls; and "Sectarian" manuscripts
(previously unknown documents that speak to the rules and beliefs of
a particular group or groups within greater Judaism) like the Community
Rule, War Scroll, Pesher on Habakkuk (Hebrew: פשר pesher = "Commentary"),
and the Rule of the Blessing, which comprise roughly 30% of the
identified scrolls.​

what does that tell us?
easy: the texts are inadequate to rely on.

i mean even the biblical scholars accept that...
why are we even discussing this?

 

Keeps the simple problem why the allmighty creator should need any form of submission of human beings.

http://youtu.be/_rljMkvjg7I

 

(I meant 600 years\oops, but just the same)

Muhammad was around after the Bible was already canonized and he (as the Quran states) clearly states that 'they' could find it in their own Scriptures. He wasn't talking to a small conspiracy group who had the power to "change" the Torah and the NT .. Even our dear friend 'Fatihah' admits this here...

Not to mention his question in the OP http://www.politicalforum.com/4860601-post1.html .. You guys should get your stories straight.

Oh simply More manuscripts that date between 150 BCE and 70 CE,way before Islam or the Quran were even a thought.. No Muhammad in there either. No Jewish conspiracy ... But you are right, that isn't even necessary to establish what we already know.

 

let's try one more time.

what the qur'an says is explicit.
we are not discussing that.
we are elaborating about a certain effect.

the bible has been changed yes.
the qur'an says it's in the scripture yes.

do you want me to say:
here...
historical painting of mr. x changing the book
and removing the prophecy?

not gonna happen.
and wouldn't you call the painting a fraud anyway?

we know historically (islam history) that the texts
have been hidden before and during the prophet's (saw) era.

as an example;
refer to jews coming and asking about someone who commit
adultery... from their own people... they wanted muhammed (saw)
to make a judgement. and our prophet (saw) judged but from
their book... he told them to open the book and read the law...
then what did they do? (search how they hid the truth)

also look up for this name: abdullah bin salam.

what we may find in the bible is nothing near reliable.
we are not discussing that either.

on the other hand...
have you looked up anything that i have said yet?
in this post and the previous ones? no?

then the discussion gets manipulative.

you keep thinking that the author of the qur'an
is our prophet (saw).

it's Allah (God) himself.
those are the words of Allah.
that's the belief.
Allah is all knowing.

bible -whatever the timescale you give me- is unreliable.

i quoted you the state of dead sea scrolls texts. no?
why do you keep insisting?

i have also given you the link to barnabas bible.
i have tried to explain that the bible has many versions.
i have tried to reason with you.

here are "the alteration/hiding of the scriptures" in the qur'an...

Recognition:

6:20
Those to whom We have given the Scripture recognize him
as they recognize their [own] sons. Those who ruin
themselves will not believe.

Distortion:

3:78
And indeed, there is among them a party who alter the Scripture
with their tongues so you may think it is from the Scripture, but it
is not from the Scripture. And they say, "This is from Allah ," but it
is not from Allah . And they speak untruth about Allah while they know.

4:46
Among the Jews are those who distort words from their [proper]
usages and say, "We hear and disobey" and "Hear but be not heard"
and "Ra'ina," twisting their tongues and defaming the religion.
And if they had said [instead], "We hear and obey" and "Wait for us
[to understand]," it would have been better for them and more
suitable. But Allah has cursed them for their disbelief, so they
believe not, except for a few.

5:13
So for their breaking of the covenant We cursed them and made
their hearts hard. They distort words from their [proper] usages
and have forgotten a portion of that of which they were reminded.
And you will still observe deceit among them, except a few of them.
But pardon them and overlook [their misdeeds]. Indeed, Allah loves
the doers of good.

2:75
Do you covet [the hope, O believers], that they would believe for
you while a party of them used to hear the words of Allah and then
distort the Torah after they had understood it while they were knowing?

7:161-162
And [mention, O Muhammad], when it was said to them, "Dwell in this
city and eat from it wherever you will and say, 'Relieve us of our burdens,'
and enter the gate bowing humbly; We will [then] forgive you your sins.
We will increase the doers of good [in goodness and reward]."

But those who wronged among them changed [the words] to a statement
other than that which had been said to them. So We sent upon them a
punishment from the sky for the wrong that they were doing.

​

please read this time.

may Allah guide you and your family.
be well...

 

I know jesus, from the East LA, and one from the phillipines. Both used the term Allah on several ocasions when speking of the stuff they saw on the TV.

 

Let me commend you on your fair treatment.. jesus is with a little j but Allah is a big A.

 

You can believe islam has always existed even prior to muhammed. But that is just bull. Arabs worshipped all sorts of gods before muhammed. allah was just one of them. And allah was the god of stones, and rocks. And muhammed has you still worshipping them. Bow down and kiss the rock.

No, you are still in your days of ignorance because you never left your idolotry. muhammed only took some of the Bible, perverted it, added into his 'revelations', and incorporated the stone worship with it, and there you have islam, a nationalistic religion based on paganism and heresy.

The Jews don't call God, allah. And Jesus never called His Father and God, allah. There is no allah.

Yes, the kabbah. See there is your house of stone. And here you first indicated that the black stone was not there in the koran. Thats where you kiss the rock of allah. The black stone. Most holy place.

Of course it was idolotry. Stone worship. But of course, islam is idolotry also. So, what's a little more. But it is good to know the source of your religion.

Quantrill

 

I'm saying from Muhammad, to his Scribe, to the paper.

You believe God revealed to Muhammad, then to Scribe, then to paper, yes ?

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quran
http://www.quran.net/quran/ProtectionOfTheQuran.htm

read.

 

did they speak aramaic by any chance?

what do you want me to say?
you are accusing the only perfect monotheistic religion
that exists in the world to be idol worshipers.

you are stuck in a loop.
i understand that, many of us have prejudices...

but you must have an open mide to discuss.
otherwise you will repeat the same sentences like a robot
then guess what? i will respond the same way.

this is not a discussion.
this is fighting blindfolded.

search the etymology of the word Allah.
let's talk afterwards ok?

start here.

 

I don't want you to say anythng. I showed where allah was the name of a pagan Arab god of rocks. I showed where muhammed identified his 'revelations' with that worship of rocks which included the black stone and the kabbah, which you indicated no such worship was in the koran. But it is. And to give some sort of credibility to his 'revelations' he perverted the Bible and changed it.

I am not stuck in anythng. I am sealed in Christ. And islam has nothing to offer for the Christian who believes the Bible. But islam must try and base its false religion on the Bible.

Jesus Christ never called His Father allah. We who are Christians do not call our God and Father allah. You can worship and have allah all you want. We do not want him.

Quantrill

 

My understanding is that you guys accept Jesus as the massiah, a prophet or both ?

 

stating your own opinions is not "showing".
i kept giving you objective refrences.
i haven't seen one single impartial source from your side.

you are sealed to something yes, i hope your heart is not.

be well.