Joe the Plumber: Build a '(*)(*)(*)(*) fence' and 'start shooting'

They were illegal immigrants of WHAT country exactly?

 

Exactly. At the end of the day, we're all just people trying to live our lives. Glad you're finally getting it.​

 

I don't consider them illegal immigrants, I'm just expanding upon Taxpayer's logic.

 

alrighty then

 

Outlaws have always been subject to the dead or alive game. Besides, do you remember how people whined about GITMO? Killing them reduces the amount of whining.

 

Did the Native Americans approve their journey or even invite them?

 

So move to some random place on the planet and see how that works out for you.

 

The natives weren't Americans.

 

And the only rights they had to the land was what they were able to protect, which was mostly none of it, in the end. They certainly shot on sight when the first pilgrims came over. I don't think anyone in this thread has said literally just shoot on sight anyway. People just want the borders closed, because we have no room or any need for more people who don't bring any marketable skills to the table anymore. Countries in Europe don't even let you in without looking at your bank account, as to keep OUT those who can't pay their own way. Why is it OK for them to do it, but bad for us to simply ask them not to come over? Imagine if we put people through what many countries in Europe do? Bank checks, education checks, disease checks, ect. ^$&$&#!, Mexicans can just walk on over, enroll their kids in schools, use our hospitals without paying a dime, and we technically can't do a (*)(*)(*)(*) thing about it, simply because certain people in DC need more votes to stay in power or are so spineless as to not want to insult anyone. &%*$*$ pathetic. They want our country destroyed. There is no other logical explanation.

 

Were the Native Americans a unified people with laws concerning borders and immigration?

 

I was trying to hold up a mirror so to speak, to the person I was conversing with earlier. I don't literally have the opinion from the bit you quoted.

 

India does it.

India's shoot-to-kill policy on the Bangladesh border
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentis.../india-bangladesh-border-shoot-to-kill-policy

 

Thank you, sir.

Did the indigenous peoples of this land approve of the journey or invite them?

 

They were unified tribes and seemed to care more for the land than we do, whats more I'm not sure that a land taken in brutality and theft has enough good karma to criticize the illegal, yet non-violent attempt on others to live here.

 

There were some unified tribes, but they certainly were not one people with a shared vision, a shared sense of unity. In fact, some tribes actually worked with some of the very first European settlers in dealing with their tribal enemies.

Can you point out a square mile of land on this earth that has not been fought over at some point in mankind's history? Why is it that the decedents of the European immigrants who made this nation what is, should have to own up to something that's been happening since before written history? Why criticize the birth of this nation when you benefit directly from it? Why question the legitimacy of this nation, and the laws that have been created?

 

Killing them may solve one problem in your feeble mind, but it creates a whole bunch of other problems to Americans and other westerners who live outside the US legally, peacefully, and willingly. Basically, by this simple act, you create a type of fear among all americans who do not agree with your pov.

 

I typo'd. I meant to say "There were...", but my point is the same, the tribes that were here had space that we moved into. Think of it like a 100 small countries, and still...we moved in without asking. As for their help or why they helped, it seemed they helped at the point of a rifle if John Smith is to be believed.

I'm not questioning the legitimacy of this nation, just its karma. I said that a nation with poor karma need not run to hysterics and guns when people using non-violent means of gaining entry make the attempt.

 

As I said earlier in the thread, I think it'd be a terrible policy to literally shoot illegal immigrants for simply trying to cross the border. But at the same rate, my strict ideals concerning citizenship, and immigration, won't be perturbed by guilty sentiments.

 

I didn't say you should feel guilty about what people 400 years ago did to gain this land. You are responsible for YOU and YOU alone. I'm talking about deep "sins of the fathers" stuff and I just don't think that God is a God to be mocked. When we continue to engage in brutality, brutality will soon be all we know.

There are usually other, non-violent ways of going about the same thing.

 

Well..we won't just open fire and spray everyone in sight.

Finish the wall. Make it clear we mean business. Flood the border with warning leaflets that say "NO TRESPASSING. Armed Security Will Respond". Place a sign that says the same thing every 100 feet on the wall. Just like we have at nuclear facilities, military bases, etc....

We would only have to prove our resolve a few times, the word would be out and the problem would be over.

 

I'd agree that non-violence is the best method. I really don't see any of my ideas concerning illegal immigration and border control as being violent or brutal. The bottom line is that I believe we have a right to protect this nation, to be selective of who we allow in, that we have the right to make the terms and conditions. We don't owe anyone anything. We're not obligated to provide a better life to anyone who's not willing to submit to our requirements of citizenship. Typically, the only arguments people can muster against this, are full of emotion and guilt tripping. Meh, it doesn't work on me.

 

I wouldn't feel good about killing an illegal immigrant myself, who's sole intent is obtaining money... or even citizenship for their child, so I wouldn't expect others to do so. Now, if ever there comes a time when illegal immigrants become militant and attacking border guards with consistency, or crossing with the intent of carrying out terrorist acts... this is another matter entirely... (*)(*)(*)(*)in light them up, let them rot where they fall.

 

Well, it will work itself out. People are already heading back to Mexico for lack of jobs, so I don't think we need to go ATF on their asses just yet.

 

There are people whose job it is to protect our borders and deadly force has to be an option. They're called the U.S military.
Like I said..try to infiltrate a nuclear power plant or a missile silo and see if they have any qualms about using deadly force...on an american...There are places one can NOT trespass.

 

Fair points, but I couldn't consciously support equivalent measures for simple border crossing.