Large groups of vaccinated people still getting infected

Discussion in 'Coronavirus Pandemic Discussions' started by kazenatsu, Nov 22, 2021.

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  1. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    This is a thread to discuss anecdotal instances and news stories of large groups of people becoming infected with the Covid-19 virus despite those people having been vaccinated.

    I will start with three:

    8 dead, 89 infected after Covid outbreak at Connecticut nursing home (nbcnews.com)
    "Eight residents of a Connecticut nursing home have died since the start of a coronavirus outbreak that has infected 89 others. All but two of the infected staffers and residents were fully vaccinated."

    Six Americans, four vaccinated adults and two unvaccinated minors, tested positive for COVID-19 after traveling on a Royal Caribbean cruise.
    6 Americans, 4 of Them Vaccinated, Test Positive for COVID After Royal Caribbean Cruise (msn.com)

    5 Democrat lawmakers, who had fled Texas to try to stall state legislation from getting passed, ended up testing positive for the virus after they took a flight to D.C. They had all been vaccinated.
    https://www.reuters.com/world/us/tw...ho-fled-dc-test-positive-covid-19-2021-07-19/

    What this thread will illustrate is that the "vaccine" is not really all that great in terms of effectiveness of preventing infection (and thus possibly spread).
     
  2. FatBack

    FatBack Well-Known Member

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    it is so, " not all that great " they had to change the very definition of vaccine to make the word remotely fit it's use.... Used to be a vaccine was thought of as being very effective at preventing catching whatever it was you were vaccinated against
     
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  3. bigfella

    bigfella Well-Known Member

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    Just a definitional question, when did 5 & 6 become 'large numbers'? Maybe there are a few obscure contexts, but when you are talking millions of deaths and over 250 million recorded cases (likely several times that) even high 80s doesn't really seem large.

    There is data from all over the world involving millions of infections that gives a good idea of the impact of vaccination on infection rates and on what those infections do in the vaccinated & unvaccinated. Why not use that data rather than relying on data from a 'large' group of 5 or 6 people? Why cherry pick tiny sample sizes (and 88 people is tiny in this context) when such large samples are readily available?

    I have a fair idea what the answer is, and I'm equally confident the OP isn't going to admit to it.
     
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  4. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You mean like the large spikes in mostly vaccinated areas? You mean like Fauci now saying you should wear a mask if you are vaccinated?
     
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  5. HonestJoe

    HonestJoe Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    A handful of anecdotal examples don't actually illustrate anything about the general effectiveness of any of the various COVID vaccines. Actual data analysis does suggest that the vaccines haven't been as effective as hoped or expected but that they are still overall beneficial in most circumstances. Either way, other than the pessimists celebrating how the additional sick and dead people proves them right, is there any actual conclusion you're looking to take from this?

    There is actually nothing in the core definition of the word vaccine that infers any level of effectiveness and plenty of vaccines have their effectiveness limited for all sorts of different reasons. I believe what you are referring to was some lazy wording on a webpage that was only corrected for political reasons. It didn't change the actual scientific or clinical facts about anything.
     
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  6. FatBack

    FatBack Well-Known Member

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    Well you should take that up with Mr Webster that's where I read the definition of a vaccine.

    Though by now I'm sure the online version at least has been edited.

    Got an old dictionary laying around you know a real one like a book not recently printed ?

    Crack it open and see what it says a vaccine is
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2021
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  7. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Changed in January 2020.
     
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  8. HonestJoe

    HonestJoe Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I bet it didn't define a vaccine as always being "very effective", which is the statement you made. I think the core of the issue was more about the definition and general public understanding of the word "immunity".

    The fact remains that there are other vaccines which have similar limitations to their effectiveness but are still called vaccines.
     
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  9. FatBack

    FatBack Well-Known Member

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    Why did you feel the need to cut most of my post in your response?

    Like I said go find an old dictionary and see what it says.

    The left has a way of changing words to fit their agenda at the moment so you'll need to find a relatively older dictionary.
     
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  10. 557

    557 Well-Known Member

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    Most people pay attention to what’s actually going on around them more than what’s going on with formal research. So anecdotes are what people notice.

    Unfortunately, what people are seeing in relation to the Covid vaccines’ inability to reduce transmission in their daily lives is confirmed by research. If you want up to date studies of large groups the information is here:

    http://www.politicalforum.com/index.php?posts/1073022726/

    I say “unfortunately” because we had hoped for greater reduction of transmission from these vaccines. The takeaway is they are still doing a good job preventing bad outcomes, but not good at all at reducing transmission. It’s just the way it is and there is no value in misleading people about the inability to reduce transmission. In fact, not being forthright about this failing is counterproductive to vaccine acceptance in the long run.
     
  11. HonestJoe

    HonestJoe Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Because most of it was irrelevant to the core point. If you want to discuss different dictionary definitions, it's on you to present them. Regardless, they won't change the facts about the actual effectiveness (and efficacy) of vaccines, COVID and otherwise.
     
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  12. CenterField

    CenterField Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Warning: this thread contains misinformation about the vaccines.

    It states "large groups" when that's misinformation, for failing to compare the numbers to the full number of vaccinated people. When one does that, it becomes apparent that the numbers are not large. They are a very small percentage.

    Anecdotal reports have no scientific value whatsoever.

    So, whatever "large" number posters are claiming above, do remember to calculate the percentage of those breakthrough infections as they relate to the approximate number of vaccinated people - one can infer the latter when looking at shots given (since most vaccines in use in the world are 2-shot vaccines, an approximation is to divide the number by two, to get at the approximate number of vaccinated people; not exact since some people had just one dose so it's actually more people, but if you divide by two you'll have the "at least" number):

    Freaking 7.72 BILLION doses. So, divided by 2, at least 3.86 billion people.

    https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/covid-vaccine-tracker-global-distribution/

    Even if you say that 1 million people are getting breakthrough infections (I never saw such a high number quoted anywhere), it's still 0.026%. See what I mean, by misinformation? It's something that informs you in a way that is misleading. QED.

    Warning: the original poster has posted blatant misinformation before, including, posting a picture of a young child with chickenpox, and pretending that it was a skin reaction to a Covid-19 vaccine (at a time when young children hadn't even been vaccinated yet). We were able to locate the original picture in a chickenpox website (a picture from the 1960's, mind you!). That's who you're dealing with here, folks, when you read a thread started by anti-vaxxer Kazenatsu. That thread with the fake "vaccine reaction" picture was moved by the moderators to the Conspiracy Theories subforum, which is where it belongs. You can have a good idea of the credibility or lack thereof, when someone tries to mislead and misinform you this way.
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2021
  13. kreo

    kreo Well-Known Member

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    Last edited: Nov 22, 2021
  14. LiveUninhibited

    LiveUninhibited Well-Known Member

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    This isn't how you determine that. What is needed is a meta-analysis of studies that compare vaccinated and unvaccinated. But even one study is better than just pulling out anecdotes. Anecdotes only tell you it's not 100%. They cannot tell you whether vaccination is beneficial or not (it is).
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2021
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  15. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    That one word says it all

    anecdotal

    not scientific

    no real basis or proof

    Git better information from the back of a cereal box
     
  16. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    Ooooh! Someone who knows what science and real evidence is! :hug::hug::hug:

    I love how many on this board think they can just make stuff up and it will be believed. But if they want anecdotes they need look no further than the recent outbreaks in NSW and Victoria - as the vaccination rates rose the Number of cases receded - rapidly.

    I keep telling them that Australia has kept our infection rates so low in most of the country we are able to track outbreaks by testing the sewerage. There are large areas of Australia that have yet to see ONE case
     
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  17. Pro_Line_FL

    Pro_Line_FL Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It amazes the people who keep talking about know the least about it. The vaccine is designed to minimize the risk of serious illness and death. It does not form a bubble around you to prevent a virus from falling on you.
     
  18. kreo

    kreo Well-Known Member

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    Then it is not a vaccine, but a treatment.
    Treatment cannot be forced on the individual without consent.
     
  19. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    But if that's mostly what it does, then the argument for compelling/coercing other people to take the vaccine (when they don't want to) becomes much much weaker.

    How does that indicate I don't know about it?
    It doesn't.

    This seems like a case of your side continuing to keep shifting around the goalposts.
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2021
  20. Pro_Line_FL

    Pro_Line_FL Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I don't think so, but if you say so. I don't believe in government mandates, but it does not change their argument

    Clearly you thought the jab would somehow infection, when in reality its simply makes the infection irrelevant.

    You mean "no mandate" side? What side are you on? You want the mandate?
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2021
  21. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Well you apparently do not realize the type of arguments being made by others.

    Well I guess there might be two different factions on the "pro-vaccine" side.
    It seems you only merely think these vaccines are good and that people should take them, but don't believe there should be government sanctioned discrimination against those who do not decide to take them.
    Still, you would have to be incredibly ignorant not to realize there are plenty on the pro-vaccine side who do not see things the way you do.
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2021
  22. Pro_Line_FL

    Pro_Line_FL Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    None of my concern. Why is there a need to place everyone in "your side" and "my side". It doesn't work like that in real world.

    If someone wants to think its some kind of evil conspiracy then so be it. They may or may not survive it, but its their choice to reject medical advice.

    Their opinion is none of my concern.
     
  23. James California

    James California Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    ! :eekeyes: Just realized I am 56 years late for my polio vaccine " booster " ...
     
  24. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You should be aware of it, and be aware than many anti-vax arguminents are directed against their position.

    Let me just put it to you this way: If everyone on the pro-vax side held the same stated position you do, then I would not be wasting my time arguing about this.

    In fact, if you do not oppose their position (which you say is none of your concern), then you are part of the problem.
     
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2021
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  25. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    as has been said over and over

    the Vaccine is not a condom, it does not stop you from getting the virus, it only tries to prepare your immune system to fight it if\when you do get it
     

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