Macedonia Urged to Solve “Name” Dispute

Greece should change its name to Grease. I like that better. Some how it seems more appropriate.

 

Blinded with hatred and intolerance common to the Albanians. The Albanians had and have all the imaginable rights and never had "ski" ending their surnames. "ski" had and have Macedonian Muslims called "Torbshi" which were and are under Albanian pressure to declare that they were/are Albanians.

 

red: do schools held in italian language for italian minority in croatia prevent italians to integrate? or czechs? I don't think so
predominantly slavic: on what basis can you say that Albanians in Macedonia don't speak Macedonian after all.
bold quoted part: does it imply that that schooling was recognized by state? what is purpose of it if it is not recognized by 'predominant Slavic population'?
part 3: t First, for your own sake 'Albos' is term that sounds offensive, but also it might be not and maybe someone can misinterpret it.
Also, 'protecting Albos' part makes me think clearly that your knowledge of that population is not that wide and it is based on your national attitude with no relevant clue-simply: 'Albos' are not Muslims only Mother Theresa was Albanian CAtholic Christian from Macedonia (ouch). 'Attacking' Greeks- or Greek policy doesn't make me Greek hater and I am not Greek hater, it is just the fact that their laws and their policy is quite unclear which is shown in last 2 years-through protests
Attacking Serbs- well your problem is when someone claims oppositely from you you consider him/her Serbo-hater. As for that I've got many friends both from Serbia and Greece.
And finally, when did I attacked CROAT? if i did, i didn't attacked someone for being Croat or Serb but for your own perception of things and believing strictly in it like nothing else on this Earth exist and fact that you're likely to present yourself as martyrs,while anything beyond that is-Serbophobic.

 

why are Albanians so aggressive

 

Let's make it a little bit clear: term Slavic is not guilty for defining origin of those who did that there is also fact that term Slavic is frequently misused and basically from genetic point of view no nation in Balkans or World is 'pure blooded'

 

So obviously you were wrong in a previous post.

You forgot to include link one more time... Author of the above is an ethnic Albanian IBRAHIM MEHMETI http://www.aimpress.ch/dyn/trae/archive/data/199511/51108-005-trae-sko.htm

They lived in Yugoslavia, never-ever forget that and were pampered by federal government more than anyone else.
Albanians attacked FYRoMacedonia for crying out loud!

'Two years ago NATO intervened in Kosovo to defend the ethnic Albanians. Now they recognise that Albanian extremism is threatening to destroy the fragile stability in the war-torn province and beyond. As one senior NATO soldier in Kosovo puts it: "They're extremely close to pushing the entire region over the precipice and into the abyss. And that will mean a massive disaster."

The people behind the latest unrest in Macedonia are mainly members of the Kosovo People's Movement (L.P.K.), the group that gave rise to the Kosovo Liberation Army in 1997...'
http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,104545,00.html

You've got an answer to all this from other poster.

 

1/ Only small percentage of the Albanians are Christians and they mostly reside in the Albania proper! Look at the 'Islam in the Republic of Macedonia' and Serbian Southern Province of Kosovo and Metohija and it will be very clear to you of what I'm saying here.

2/ Comparing Italians in Croatia who form only 0.4% of Croatian population and Albanians in FYRoMacedonia is like making a joke out of this topic!

3/ If 'Serv' is acceptable (I never seen you questioning that one) , than Shiptar should be too, but I'll keep my self with 'Albo' terminology 'cause I know it ain't offensive and I'm not the person who will stoop low and follow those who are trying to lecture other posters when it comes to basic culture.

4/ I won't go into something I already typed here and made my own conclusion. No martyrs and no devils here, just a bunch of posters who are posting under the flags of their choice.

Now let's stick to the subject of discussion which is a 'name dispute'. I strongly disagree with your initial idea to involve Albanians in already existent mess. Third party would put additional stress and introduce new sets of probs to already hard situation...

 

2. Is it? all national minorities in Croatia( who reside in Croatia for some time-min.100 years) have schools on their mother tongue and bilingual schools. Difference can be in number but if we speak about Albanians who reside in Macedonia for more than thousands of years I don't think that I'm making joke of that. More precisely, 'Slavic' minority resides in Albania for couple of centuries and if i'm not wrong it is ca. 14 centuries and people who kept all tradition (in terms of language,giving names,etc) can't have schools on language that is practically individual group of Indo European langauges? Because it prevents them to integrate (again) into predominant (where difference in predominance is in small percentage) Slavic population? Does following their tradition actually prevents them to integrate? I don't think that integration necessarily mean - leaving your heritage. Btw, why can't Serbs in Kosovo integrate into predominant Albanian population? Because they are not allowed to? So we have Albanians repressing Serb minority but when we talk about repressing Albanians in Macedonia (talking about 90's) - how dare someone to do that. And if someone is non christian-that person is Serbo and Christian phobic -.- . OK why do you keep talking to me? to prove that I'm Christian-phobic even though I'm not?
3.Oh yes shame on me for not paying attention on every single detail and not questioning Serv(even though i myself never said that or wrote that). Oh my God I should ask God for forgiveness for that nonhuman behavior?
As for Christian Albanians-Christian Albanians even though 'small' percentage exist and they are not situated in Albania only. There is even bigger number of Christian Albanians living in States and having their Church. There are also Arbenasi-Albanians living in Croatia for example and Italy if I'm not wrong and they are Christian-Catholic, even though I think that there is number of Orthodox Christians in Italy as well (speaking about Albanians). Though for Kosovo and Macedonia Muslims are predominant and there are also Christians and if their number is not that huge they are not worth of mentioning? Well not if you try to prove that Serbs,Greeks and others are only Christians in Balkans and that demonic Muslims are still trying to exterminate them making conspiracy plans every single day and night.
red part: yeah .... well you know what:that is non sense, a huuge non sense. On the other hand, have you ever turned against crimes comitted by your nationals? I don't think so, as for Ratko Mladic for an instance (since I remember that we had some discussions on him) you refer to that criminal as General and claim that he's not guilty (unless court decides otherwise) despite all written and video materials present on everyday media regardless of country. You know what, if I'm not wrong even if court proclaims his guilt- you will be claiming otherwise. And just to say that this is not out of topic, because you're blaming me for not putting blame on something I don't necessarily have to-to make obvious for you and others that I am for or against something (which is going out of the topic btw).

Topic part:

well that prevents Albanians to integrate. How can they integrate if they don't feel the name OF THEIR COUNTRY as theirs? and than you put the blame on generations of little nationalists having flags of Republic Albania in their hands and singing national anthem of R.Albania. I mean it is your opinion, ok I can respect that but that is making another Serbia on Balkans with same issue and God forbid same outcome.

 

'Slavic minority'-lapsus lingue sorry I was about to say Slavic majority and if there is such mistake somewhere else consider it as simple texting mistake and not provocation or smth of that sort

 

Difference IS in the number.Croatia is consistent of ~90% of ethnic Croats and 'others', which are ALL except Serbs, below 1%! We should compare apples and apples here, right?

Correct! Slavic and other minorities in Albania went trough the process of Albanisation; their names were changed, no schools, no nothing (just a Greek minority on South enjoys some of the basic human rights).

If you speak about Albanian language, rest assure people from Gruziya (Georgia) can understand them. So 'individual' it isn't.

As I said previously, let's wait for a census data before we make conclusion on their number. Funny...
'Thaci: Any Albanian who has visited Macedonia should be in Census '
Thursday, 29 September 2011
http://macedoniaonline.eu/content/view/19251/45/

Tradition and culture is one thing and integration completely other! For instance, let's say we have X number of Albanians who reside in FYRoMacedonia and they attend schools in their mother lang (again to me unbelievable since I resided in the States and know there's no such a thing under 'minority rights'). So, after awhile, years of schooling, X person finishes his education and wants to find a job, right? He turns to his own ethnic community 'cause he never achieved level/skill of the lang of the country he is a citizen of needed for a sometimes demanding jobs (communication skills, negotiating skills etc.) and then, we're facing something already pointed out here, which is a very high unemployment rate among them. Is that a way to integrate into one society and make the best out of personal potentials? Certainly it isn't.
(If this was too plastic, it's 'cause I believe some of the posters are not rational when giving their opinion which is strictly political one and not pragmatic) .

Kosovo is Serbia.

Theatrical approach to topics keep for the kids here-I'll delete all of it. K?

I was addressing issue of the regional character, not Albos in the States or elsewhere and worth mentioning is, that even that very small percentage of Christian Albanians in Serbian Southern province of Kosovo and Metohija is on a decline.

So you believe we're not just a regular posters and people? LOL

Frozy, grow up, you're not the court.

Dude, Albanians have a different culture and are very closed community. All people from the region know that but you. What are you dreaming about? are you blind to all of the posts on this thread?

 

That is mistake I was referring to Macedonia (and corrected myself below - slavic majority -.- )

 

For such claim you don't need a passport to pass borderline between two territories and guess what:now you need it (seriously)

aham ok,
Christians in Albania:

Albanian Orthodox 20%, Roman Catholic 10%; (cia world factbook)

Greece:

1997: 200,000 Arvanites (Albanians settled in Greece during the late Middle Ages) Christ.Orthodox

Italy (Mediterranean region which we all still belong to)

Arberesh:

260 000 (Byzantine Catholic, Latin-rite Catholic minority)

Arbanasi (Croatia)

Roman Catholic est. 4000

and 26.08% of total population of Albanians in Montenegro were Roman Catholic estimated in 2003.

(not taking into account diaspora living worldwide)-that's not small number , not big either but important when taking Albanian community in general.

No I believe that you're descendants of evil Akamataa seeking for blood and soul of innocent kids laying down to bed every night (sarcasm )

lol ok hem let me quote something, perhaps it looks familiar:

better to say baseless paranoia by some members of regional Christian nations

For someone who never was in Albania or Macedonian parts where Albanians live : that is practically stereotypical claim which should not be taken for serious. ALL PEOPLE KNOW THAT? Is that why yearly income earned in tourism is increasing in Albania (besides the fact that it is cheap,but why would people go to Albania if hosts are closed (minded)
. All this time you're speaking about Kosovo Albanians, and yet you refer to them as regional. It is too obvious that you don't know the regional difference between Albanians for simple fact that you don't know any of these in person. Knowing one person, can offer you knowing 2,3,4 and than even more.... who's biased here? yeah and please stop referring to me as dude for simple reason : physically I can't be one.

 

Interesting how some peoples' misery can be fun to others.
However, Kosovo is integral part of the Republic of Serbia according to the UN.

Islam in the Republic of Macedonia

1. Albanians 509,083 77% of total Muslim population.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_the_Republic_of_Macedonia

How many Albanians ARE in FYRoMacedonia, you tell me and give me percentage of Christians among them, pls.

2. Catholic Albanians in Serbian Southern Province of Kosovo and Metohija are only ~3% and on a decline.

3. It's not possible to estimate the situation and religion in Greece so you pulled numbers out of a thin air.

Not paranoia, I read you carefully.

In other words they DO NOT integrate, thank you for confirmation although it wasn't your intention to do so.

P.S. Dude can be gender neutral, but I must admit that based on your writing style I thought you're a guy, sorry.

 

I've difficulties to follow your writing, Frozy and at one point you even omitted my words in your answer... If you proceed like that I'll lose plot completely LOL.
Albanians failed to integrate in YU, one multiethnic, relatively multicultural country and you expect them to integrate now when they're financed by external sources?

Anyways, it is NOT possible to estimate correct number of the Muslim Albanians in Greece for a couple of reasons and one of them is illegal immigration. I'd like you to include links to all of your claims and numbers you guesstimated here.

When it comes to Croatia, I think this article could be of your interest and the head of this Albanian association is obviously Muslim Albanian (Adem Shala) who wishes to settle Albanians from Kosovo in Zadar, Croatia .

Albanci žele Zadar napuniti Kosovarima
http://www.slobodnadalmacija.hr/Zadar/tabid/73/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/93791/Default.aspx

 

Ok,we're just going to the circle no point in this speech on Conspiracy theories. Btw. can you please go back and quote me saying that Albanians in Macedonia integrate successfully?^^

.

Hey! Who speaks about Muslim Albanians in Greece?! We're speaking about CHRISTIAN ALBANIANS! living in Greece from 15 century AD. As for that,they are not illegal immigrants and they are normally citizens of Hellenic Republic and their estimated number is quite correct.

[/QUOTE]

Hon,you are totally missing the point: Arbanasi are not people who immigrated from Kosovo and I'm not speaking about Albanians immigrating from Kosovo and holding bakeries,etc etc. Btw. there is no chance that they can be Muslim since they originate from Skadar in Albania moving to majority Christian country.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arbanasi_(group)
read this article for God's sake.

 

Again I'm qouting myself, and repeating WE'RE TALKING ABOUT CHRISTIAN ALBANIANS:

 

Of course NOT, but that was my point from the very beginning. How they can decide on the name of the country they are citizens of (I'm talking about legals) IF they don't integrate into society ?! What was unclear to you?

It doesn't matter, give me link pls.

LOL...Frozy, listen, there are around 16,000 Albanians in Croatia in TOTAL (2001 census) and they make ~0,3 % of Croatian population. Some of them are certainly Christians, but many are Muslims and when we have such a small number to deal with, it becomes irrelevant for discussion.

 

Forgot to say... If they originate from Skadar, they can be of Slavic background and just went over the wiki-link you posted... interesting to see that notable 'Arbanasi' have Slavic names such as Andrija, Bozidar and Tomislav.

 

So what? does it make them Serbs in particular? I think that I could already show what do I think about 'clear blood origins' (that they don't exist)

 

in order to integrate you have to consider it as yours in a way it is in particular moment. I mentioned it as a mean of integration.

it is when we speak about Christ. Albanians in GENERAL -.- adding their number to number of Christ.Albanians in other countries, which equals to total number of Christ.Albanians is not irrelevant number and we're speaking about TOTAL NUMBER

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arvanites

 

Albanians were oppressed and discriminated in the FYROM to the level of the slavery. In many fields the segregation was catastrophic, e.g. Education in superior level was prohibited to Albanians. The University of Tetovo was created by Albanians, although it was institutionalized only after 10 years, and it needed to happen a war in order to achieve goals - the elementary ones(educations) - regulated by all International Conventions for Human Rights ! Albanians were shot by the FYROm-ian police, the day the University was inaugurated !

*****

As for assimilating of Albanians by the side of FYROM-ians, it is a worldwide known fact. But you should spare us from hypocrisy, those 'torbeshi' were under heavy pressure by the side of your compatriots to change their entity(from Albanian to FYROM-ian)... furthermore, Orthodox Albanians were forced to convert in Fyrom-ian ethnicity as it is the case with this Albanian from FYROM :
....

Orthodox Albanians in Macedonia are a community that is not officially recognized, although they are a reality and the reality around them is a silent issue. Are in a small number, those who declare that they are Albanians, but with the Orthodox religion.
...
Branko Manolovski (pictured) is the Albanian Orthodox, a patriot that told the story of his family, the truth of today′s orthodox people, and remission of their roots.

The villages of Reka and Gostivar and also settlements in the southeastern part of Macedonia were once populated areas with majority Albanian Orthodox religion. Manolovski told that after the Serbian occupation since 1913 began the assimilation of Orthodox Albanians and was put pressure on these areas to change their surnames.

According to him, academics, prominent personalities from various fields of politics, literature, art and other fields that are Albanian Orthodox, but they declared publicly that they are Macedonians.
Former President of the Macedonian Academy of Sciences, Mateja Matevski is Albanian,but Matevski continues to silent that his parents were Albanian
http://www.ina-online.net/maqedoni/6415.html

You can use google translate FYROM-ian !

 

And almost forgot, It is more than embarrassing when serbs try to justify their genocidal actions, by emphasizing the mixed ethnicity of various politicians in ex -YU... this only proves their sadistic soul, which instead of repenting try to mask the terror which was conducted by their compatriots. As it has been provided in the thread how serbs destroyed Yugoslavia, by trying to achieve their goal of creating genocidal country "Greater Serbia", the crucial question that can give many answers will be : Why everyone(Croats, Slovenes, Bosniacs, Montenegrins, Fyrom-ians, Albanians) tried(and succeeded) to separate and not live under the same roof with serbs ?!?

It is more than pathetic also to read some comments of the serb posters here, drawing parallels between serbian genocidal actions and Albanian liberating operations. Not only by the quantity but quality also ! Driving out almost 1 million Albanians from Kosovo, killing tens of thousands of them, massive rapes.... I think that serb are shameless people, and Europe failed to punish them for their similar Nazi methods of persecution and terrorizing others....

Silent ethnic cleansing that it is taking place in Vojvodina, Hungarian land occupied by serbs, should awake EU conscious and act against them... Belgrade pashaluk should be the final solution, for peace in the Balkan !

 

I do not have problems with Slavs, except serbs , of course . But can not stand the serb hypocrisy, when they emphasize 'slavs' and 'christians' , although they practically butchered Catholic Croats and Bosniac Muslims in ex -Yu wars ... I mean, Dobrica Cosic was absolutely correct when he said that 'serbs lie constantly...'! And they haven't a bit of shame !